From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27013 invoked from network); 10 May 2022 16:11:43 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 May 2022 16:11:43 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E44B393D2D; Wed, 11 May 2022 02:11:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1536093D28; Wed, 11 May 2022 02:08:23 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="PhIpVa7b"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E61AE93D28; Wed, 11 May 2022 02:08:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f42.google.com (mail-vs1-f42.google.com [209.85.217.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82AA993D1B for ; Wed, 11 May 2022 02:08:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f42.google.com with SMTP id w124so17389496vsb.8 for ; Tue, 10 May 2022 09:08:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=987tHmYD1tDW/+oKwesqMfcSJmv2tnUh2NSuPtEzwdk=; b=PhIpVa7b/lBbbTb4djpbljUJLjOzKP3DLRR5/YCs5CIfNHUpRawXQpHtVf+F172/kz ssldtlN62oqnabCE4iDeFCFdKQ98DrbrNaVc0EoVSOyQGeciqdqGhwgpxVbopxXq2Flx dDVMAOz3tiFQIndbVEogm5CuEIRiandTpCv5p6QunMQ88CNzKZ8gyKsJHwCG3e5Aamzi GcxY6QMbfrhS1Je6OGDYxcGxtPR9HVVP1eVNuZeQsrJSNuvYjAVfYQAG8Sl1KmK+LnHw EkWdF4LD3iN2znQKkL946gQt7hF/n4J/YY4mgfssjFBiSNNkWFs+rfUshenfzaHAVro7 hkwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=987tHmYD1tDW/+oKwesqMfcSJmv2tnUh2NSuPtEzwdk=; b=plV6DQN0GMZGYk8MlZx9TuuN97I8joA14BdCEAS9p6N4fZ/kBx/RWxLXseAAIpeBXc vc95T3QgF3AKbXDrMMDqwRLIKmT84E06cTjm3uwqElgz20LjIHYXq3u9xcZ+6BBRwmcs wkVcKImebGn+bP06dthmUh+XiMDrER/o+xZcjSU8IHHxd69AAG/FA93ECS4UF57u43gg YRsT/tE928er+Hh4A4feG0J5izgWt77cqReSXO18nG/WgGSvercO5AAsE/dp1yJqPgSU 9QZorrjdt3nfNhMadJ3nbZP+uWk1EIeruG5ecl+TJ1RKsIOh7StSUkMeUrqeK+1/gAy8 NLIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531FwNIpZIf3iqsCpqkKn9ce3r887zZuGKuoOPkVzOZaXBI3hoXS ddw5YnmvbeybZlQqM4UKDIJWpEeo29RGuSBpSJxgmw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzcBOsR2yo230wtSQ2nwie1/URFEvJaPLKh8mNSnDZIWsE6BLMjPrdqrwbbyke9kJDGs0SjfQ5GQvaO0PoLW/0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f445:0:b0:32c:c32c:c7c1 with SMTP id r5-20020a67f445000000b0032cc32cc7c1mr11810752vsn.51.1652198898359; Tue, 10 May 2022 09:08:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57977CE7-DDCC-4861-BBD2-843B9B9F51C2@ronnatalie.com> <1505232b-86bd-0d65-52c7-c8d19bd0663c@mhorton.net> In-Reply-To: <1505232b-86bd-0d65-52c7-c8d19bd0663c@mhorton.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 10:08:06 -0600 Message-ID: To: Mary Ann Horton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006f731d05deaa88f8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] First Unix-like OSes not derived from AT&T code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000006f731d05deaa88f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, May 10, 2022, 9:32 AM Mary Ann Horton wrote: > I recall having an IBM PC port of UNIX in the 1980s on floppy with a black > 6x9 box and Charlie Chaplin with the red rose. I thought it was called AIX. > I installed it, and recall it being very different from UNIX for sysadmin > (different logs, different admin commands) but similar for users. I thought > it was based on System III or thereabouts. > > I can't find any evidence of this. It appears AIX 1.0 wasn't for the > original PC. > > Does anyone else recall this distribution and what it was called or based > on? > The first 8086 port was inside of Bell Labs, but was for a system with a custom MMU. The first commercial one was Venix released in 1983 based on Version 7 with some Berkeley improvements using the MIT compilers of the time, but it had a blue label with a boring stylized V on it. IBM released PC/IX a year later (1984) and marketed heavily. It was a companion to its other unix offerings, and wasn't AIX. That port was based on System III. If anything had the clever Charlie Chaplin marketing materials, it was sure to be PC/IX. Microsoft's Xenix was also in this time frame, but wasn't marketed by IBM (and its earliest version in 1982 predate Venix, but were only for Intel's System 86 machines, and may have required an Intel MMU board (the quick research I did was unclear on this point, other than it was supported). SCO/Microsoft released in late 1983 and early 1984 versions for the commercially available PC and other variants at the time before the IBM-PC became the standardized x86 platform. So my money is on PC/IX. Warner Thanks, > > Mary Ann > On 5/1/22 19:08, Kenneth Goodwin wrote: > > My understanding of AIX was that IBM licensed the System V source code and > then proceeded to "make it their own". I had a days experience with it on a > POS cash register fixing a client issue. The shocker - they changed all the > error messages to error codes with a look at the manual requirement. > > Not sure if this is true in its entirety or not. > But that's what I recall, thst it was not a from scratch rewrite but more > along the lines of other vendor UNIX clones of the time. > License the source, change the name and then beat it to death. > > On Sun, May 1, 2022, 2:08 PM ron minnich wrote: > >> in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the first, as I >> understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, write the >> code." >> >> Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done quite right. >> One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return an error if >> the full path existed. oops. >> >> But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of code to >> handle AIX being different from just about everything else. >> >> >> --0000000000006f731d05deaa88f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, May 10, 2022, 9:32 AM Mary An= n Horton <mah@mhort= on.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

I recall having an IBM PC port of UNIX in the 1980s on floppy with a black 6x9 box and Charlie Chaplin with the red rose. I thought it was called AIX. I installed it, and recall it being very different from UNIX for sysadmin (different logs, different admin commands) but similar for users. I thought it was based on System III or thereabouts.

I can't find any evidence of this. It appears AIX 1.0 wasn't= for the original PC.

Does anyone else recall this distribution and what it was called or based on?


=
The first 8086 port was inside of Bell Labs, but wa= s for a system with a custom MMU. The first commercial one was Venix releas= ed in 1983 based on Version 7 with some Berkeley improvements using=C2=A0th= e MIT compilers of the time, but it had a blue label with a boring stylized= V on it. IBM released PC/IX a year later (1984) and marketed heavily. It w= as a companion to its other unix offerings, and wasn't AIX. That port w= as based on System III. If anything had the clever Charlie Chaplin marketin= g materials, it was sure to be PC/IX. Microsoft's Xenix was also in thi= s time frame, but wasn't marketed by IBM (and its earliest version in 1= 982 predate Venix, but were only for Intel's System 86 machines, and ma= y have required an Intel MMU board (the quick research I did was unclear on= this point,=C2=A0other than it was supported). SCO/Microsoft released in l= ate 1983 and early 1984 versions for the commercially available PC and othe= r variants at the time before the IBM-PC became the standardized x86 platfo= rm.

So my money is on PC/IX.

Warner

<= div dir=3D"auto">
=

Thanks,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mary Ann

On 5/1/22 19:08, Kenneth Goodwin wrote:
=20
My understanding of AIX was that IBM licensed the System V source code and then proceeded to "make it their own&= quot;. I had a days experience with it on a POS cash register fixing a client issue. The shocker - they changed all the error messages to error codes with a look at the manual requirement.

Not sure if this is true in its entirety or not.<= /div>
But that's what I recall, thst it was not a f= rom scratch rewrite but more along the lines of other vendor UNIX clones of the time.=C2=A0
License the source, change the name and then beat it to death.

On Sun, May 1, 2022, 2:08 PM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the first, as I
understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, write the
code."

Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done quite right.
One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return an error if
the full path existed. oops.

But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of code to
handle AIX being different from just about everything else.


--0000000000006f731d05deaa88f8--