From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1263 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2023 17:39:18 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Jan 2023 17:39:18 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB2D4255E; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 03:39:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-f45.google.com (mail-ej1-f45.google.com [209.85.218.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F1294255D for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 03:39:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-f45.google.com with SMTP id rl14so15741205ejb.2 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:39:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bkelHkwkoQEMkq9yBW8yFURn+HyWy/B2cIOUzBLA6YM=; b=VTMlWNb7vRIEk65ZzbBj6l92/2T50++Y5U1LVAV6oEwGsV3tsuMyQZNSIHhb6vDez4 C2M7s3kaSPT6xUeCt59tCIwAcke9XdZHjv5j9YyhLlvbSJIju06/B4wEDeuZyrB7+/9d fiEnk7IVlY/saH1Y0G+ZrfDDNWE7zeWNNNZrdZxFQIZ6eh/JhMvD4+XSB24ChPatagms 2LD4IBO4+Y5eEGY5qvhxVP6Og0PSONknsAzh9bzS9Cn1+NCxGHSb5hpvyfslUrzjtrdK dITsqrl97kmFGONzD7p41mvB8KdOzr3b4tXkurZWYPb1Qz4NfvoNcu/1KrMtF5gLrUiO EkKQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bkelHkwkoQEMkq9yBW8yFURn+HyWy/B2cIOUzBLA6YM=; b=wY0+ljPPeyOsABqGhq2Csg7OuJm1NrO/x5GHCFgxv3uXNFkseYnKQSrnix/EjunUHM eZpXcyDDWCem0DuRuyarGDy9DtCQZdPsQoZsCP4LtT4G3aeMKOQY1sji6XctOQ/HOnFq DNzdpm/UFzvHMwkHpG4f8AhjPoLK8/zyiEU86OThHN42Nj4E0FI55ykLwJwdHi9RFaXG ki/BdNlYWGFFKRkUYJiHr40eyXtosgxyCya8/82BaqiiJqJe9Jutgx8QYBaJjJBINhOU xkD+NQ0ccqd/HSWO9n4t/h9bh28FdLv5C1aDxEai6UuqP3yn4KZ7pM0ik20gvI3MSf7P gtiA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krO6axrgswi3qnUI+GZc6VK19vfQuXh45VqS9Ej+7UGDApt5CEB J0ZgcXEUNkLLh6EySyax56TQu1hPf4Cu2F+CxLMMDTNbFYRB8g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXv0icxcicSeWXYWqnnArGDtly0hOwwr/ViVbdYJxBmYrBx+K53DAODWfBFL2iLornH5MGeozw+D6H+g4FOo5LA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:7754:b0:86f:2cc2:7028 with SMTP id o20-20020a170906775400b0086f2cc27028mr5275238ejn.133.1674841083575; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:38:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0C5D8AF8-BAB2-48B5-854B-34E3A949DE50@planet.nl> <0778FF74-7DF5-4072-95F3-5FF5BEB4CC33@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:37:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d78ebb05f3425390" Message-ID-Hash: 6YUY26O4XGII3BB4LR3DLCZ5YVDWUZ5W X-Message-ID-Hash: 6YUY26O4XGII3BB4LR3DLCZ5YVDWUZ5W X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Earliest UNIX Workstations? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000d78ebb05f3425390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 10:36 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 10:16 AM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS > wrote: > >> >> On Jan 27, 2023, at 1:19 AM, Paul Ruizendaal wrote: >> >> The version of X discussed in the paper was apparently part of the 4.3BS= D >> distribution tapes: >> >> "The use of X has grown far beyond anything we had imagined. Digital has >> incorporated X into a commercial product, and other manufacturers are >> following suit. With the appearance of such products and the release of >> complete X sources on the Berkeley 4.3 UNIX distribution tapes, it is no >> longer feasible to track all X use and development.=E2=80=9D >> >> >> This X is not on the TUHS Unix tree website, nor on the CSRG disks. It >> turns out that there is a directory =E2=80=9Csrc/new=E2=80=9D that is no= t included there. >> It is here: >> >> http://www.retro11.de/ouxr/43bsd/usr/src/new/ >> >> The version of X included with 4.3BSD was X10. I assume this is the >> oldest surviving X Window source code. >> > > There's X10R3 and X10R4 at https://www.x.org/archive/X10R3/ and > https://www.x.org/archive/X10R4/. On the FTP site, there's sym links for > R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R6.1, R6.3, R6.4, R6.5.1, R6.6 and R6.8 in the pu= b > directory as well, but they are dead links and correspond to the X11 > releases that are also there, not X1, etc. > > The X10R3 is from Feb 2, 1986. X10R4 is from December 2, 1986. The > retro11.de files are from June 1986, so > are no later than X10R4, and most likely either X10R3 or an internal > snapshot (I've not downloaded them both > to run a diff to see which). > > Google searches for X9, X8, etc aren't at all helpful. > Also interesting to note is that X10 had clu bindings in the CLUlib directory... > Of course the source code for the Blit has survived, as has the source >> code of MGR. The source code for Sunwindows and NeWS is presumably lost? >> > > When I was a Solbroune, we started the OI toolkit with pdb, swm, uib, etc > because Sun refused to license the source code to SunView. Although I had > easy access to SunOS (which I wish I'd saved a copy of now), the SunView > code was never in the building. It was relatively easy to get SunOS sourc= es > for a fee, but much harder for SunView. So I'm less than completely hopef= ul > here. And NeWS was a fringe thing with a significantly shorter product > life, so I'm even less hopeful there. > > Warner > --000000000000d78ebb05f3425390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 10:36 AM Warn= er Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:=


On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 10:16 AM Paul Ruizendaal via= TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org<= /a>> wrote:
<= div>

The version of X discussed in the= paper was apparently part of the 4.3BSD distribution tapes:

"T= he use of X has grown far beyond anything we had imagined. Digital has inco= rporated X into a commercial product, and other manufacturers are following= suit. With the appearance of such products and the release of complete X s= ources on the Berkeley 4.3 UNIX distribution tapes, it is no longer feasibl= e to track all X use and development.=E2=80=9D


This X is not on the TUHS Unix tree website, nor on the = CSRG disks. It turns out that there is a directory =E2=80=9Csrc/new=E2=80= =9D that is not included there. It is here:


The v= ersion of X included with 4.3BSD was X10. I assume this is the oldest survi= ving X Window source code.

Ther= e's X10R3 and X10R4 at=C2=A0https://www.x.org/archive/X10R3/ and=C2=A0https://www.x.org/a= rchive/X10R4/. On the FTP site, there's sym links for R1, R2, R3, R= 4, R5, R6, R6.1, R6.3, R6.4, R6.5.1, R6.6 and R6.8 in the pub directory as = well, but they are dead links and correspond to the X11 releases that are a= lso there, not X1, etc.

The X10R3 is from Feb 2, 1= 986. X10R4 is from December 2, 1986. The retro11.de files are from June 1986, so
are no = later than X10R4, and most likely either X10R3 or an internal snapshot (I&#= 39;ve not downloaded them both
to run a diff to see which).
=

Google searches for X9, X8, etc aren't at all helpf= ul.

Also interesting to n= ote is that X10 had clu bindings in the CLUlib=C2=A0directory...
= =C2=A0
Of course the source code for the Blit has survived, as has= the source code of MGR. The source code for Sunwindows and NeWS is presuma= bly lost?

When I was a Solbroun= e, we started the OI toolkit with pdb, swm, uib, etc because Sun refused to= license the source code to SunView. Although I had easy access to SunOS (w= hich I wish I'd saved a copy of now), the SunView code was never in the= building. It was relatively easy to get SunOS sources for a fee, but much = harder for SunView. So I'm less than completely hopeful here. And NeWS = was a fringe thing with a significantly shorter product life, so I'm ev= en less hopeful there.

Warner
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