From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9761 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2021 23:23:39 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Oct 2021 23:23:39 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8C9039CBE9; Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:23:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9F39CAF1; Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:23:04 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="ps9U7SKM"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 16DD89CAF1; Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:23:01 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f48.google.com (mail-ua1-f48.google.com [209.85.222.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22CCB9CAE9 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2021 09:23:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f48.google.com with SMTP id b34so11031814uad.8 for ; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 16:23:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mpds3KPxwq5huOBa7ylRUt22Ip0po3pKIGmyP9gxo8c=; b=ps9U7SKMIWqMzRN7WkwCrNsyJpDS/ZKL3fZmy03v8IAPu6Vx52YgwWMGdScYlUbuij vfJFkDRtaCQ0XHihWR3GtEmhbglCd4AIlQXkaive581An9h6VyX0kBcOZqkbkRRvRHNE cxKnRJdiBAc88Q2sdedgkwIS+atdCOh+JPyFlLkTzzNj6yfoblxaCrLRIn87+4JyxLEi d5C/clwf3LzgxnyYWAegnlFSKNUkYIc+2zZBI1YfWm2K/EeCD1Y0srchV69SWYt9aqzh 45jbrm71SvbD/z1aQy0IkpqeaQcnmXf5mClhhPyfcyLnFzWHRv0z4LUdhgCA8s0AAAm2 nbFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mpds3KPxwq5huOBa7ylRUt22Ip0po3pKIGmyP9gxo8c=; b=kdNPpV/XYTRkpixBhFxZKHZVy6dwV7gOYGrk1CLnBQN7B+JAADcJapUaRs283Hr7lb WktXmP0QbbiDINZi1KmMqg1H6dLCJWfjdDryTmSXd+qEQBpmeXBoVTedHGKzOQaa1Ayv SODrV3KvJEB61x4MsoJFpLEr1dD/IK++z6BEzbFhXSPfokS/4q0bSuXV8N2PesHS2fwj 7cTHDUZTkwb/RIVYPMBmKXbwglehM0eV5aYDJvJ6HcJ73DC6kYZgqnPeL9sYZJD4WorT UgwT1B2RT3/+TiDUJHfdSwRDKPawiFSstqrfoWuFnSsiDNYMC4jHULox5jzCSoynIKiU rHGw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531wgNot9v4w+uQVFGv/Dl8/jZ6EyGtfMRu+JtV97gdwybwMRU2U TMifprkc6+3EkFDaN029Uw+pjSyH3A+VpLMfgy8l/Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz/ZrcQty0imFzmbvZw2RlxeCi2h/PhtJtWG1CxV3Zc4fYNI9MzXxNS5lRrw3R9BZyCtI2jd4SPmy4Cwmd84JU= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:23d0:: with SMTP id 74mr4603914uao.69.1633303378883; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 16:22:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2021 17:22:48 -0600 Message-ID: To: Will Senn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b5874005cd7b13e5" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Groups origins X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b5874005cd7b13e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 3:55 PM Will Senn wrote: > Hi all, > > I was reading a recent thread, over on the FreeBSD forums about groups > that quickly devolved into a discussion on the origin of the operator gro= up: > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/groups-overview.82303/ > > I thought y=E2=80=99all would be the best place to ask the questions that= arose in > me during my read of the thread. > > Here they are in no special order: > > 1. Where did operator come from and what was it intended to solve? > Operator was for people that 'operated' the computers. The name came from a group on TOPS-20. The operator could do things normal users couldn't, like restart stalled print jobs, run backups to mag tape and a few other normal 'house keeping' duties that these old machines needed. In BSD, it serves much the same purpose. It's a way to grant a little bit of privilege to an otherwise normal account that falls short of root. This grew out of the days before the personal computer revolution where the machine was massive (in terms of size), served a lot of people (via dumb terminals), and needed constant care and feeding that you'd delegate to undergrad technitians who needed work study money... > 2. How has it evolved. > In general, using groups to control permissions has fallen out of style. There's a few around still like operator and wheel that control some things, or have elevated privs due to being able to open files others can't= . > 3. What=E2=80=99s a good place to look/ref to read about groups, generall= y? > At one point, it was well documented in the FreeBSD handbook, but I'm not seeing it right away in a quick search. > I liked one respondent=E2=80=99s answer about using find, heir, and the f= iles > themselves to learn about groups being used in a running system, paying > attention to the owner, Audi, etc along the way and this is how I do it > now, but this approach doesn=E2=80=99t account for the history and evolut= ion. > > Thanks! > > Willu > > > > Sent from my iPhone > --000000000000b5874005cd7b13e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 3:55 PM Will S= enn <will.senn@gmail.com> = wrote:
Hi all,
=
I was reading a recent thread, over on the FreeBSD forums ab= out groups that quickly devolved into a discussion on the origin of the ope= rator group:

I thought y=E2=80=99all wou= ld be the best place to ask the questions that arose in me during my read o= f the thread.=C2=A0

Here they are in no special or= der:

1. Where did operator come from and what was = it intended to solve?

Ope= rator was for people that 'operated' the computers. The name came f= rom a group on TOPS-20. The operator could do things normal users couldn= 9;t, like restart stalled print jobs, run backups to mag tape and a few oth= er normal 'house keeping' duties that these old machines needed.

In BSD, it serves much the same purpose. It's a = way to grant a little bit of privilege=C2=A0to an otherwise normal account = that falls short of root.

This grew out of the day= s before the personal computer revolution where the machine was massive (in= terms of size), served a lot of people (via dumb terminals), and needed co= nstant care and feeding that you'd delegate to undergrad technitians wh= o needed work study money...
=C2=A0
2. How ha= s it evolved.

In general,= using groups to control permissions has fallen out of style. There's a= few around still like operator and wheel that control some things, or have= elevated privs due to being able to open files others can't.
=C2=A0
3. What=E2=80=99s a good place to look/ref to r= ead about groups, generally?

<= div>At one point, it was well documented in the FreeBSD handbook, but I'= ;m not seeing it right away in a quick search.
=C2=A0
I liked one respondent=E2=80=99s answer about using find, heir, an= d the files themselves to learn about groups being used in a running system= , paying attention to the owner, Audi, etc along the way and this is how I = do it now, but this approach doesn=E2=80=99t account for the history and ev= olution.

Thanks!

Willu



Sent from my iPhone
=
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