From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4815 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2022 22:33:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Jun 2022 22:33:22 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6CE421D8; Sat, 4 Jun 2022 08:33:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe34.google.com (mail-vs1-xe34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e34]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A99A2421CD for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2022 08:33:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe34.google.com with SMTP id 63so8649325vsx.5 for ; Fri, 03 Jun 2022 15:33:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6ZShaYCLP2mahVnkOJV68sDn3zmnQVjIJ+yCaqjG96c=; b=CfwCYU07VypaHPF8810zIQ1wQFugl3ruaZCsKi7wKl8mnNk10avuoueTBywkSUhmw1 iGk4dY1XWfEpFoNKAaIFy2aXHjd8l5A9QJS63G2kR+ojg2l2Il3e7tb9hFqEDPsm9Qvw wFbQeuduwjnKzFlXa+zycTWhK9/ZA76fG0EVRE9soY1q/laKqKVdbpij9KfLESEY2nDr od/d13x1XGExBDR90c6YBfsMiYcCdt9n3xJUJWS3fjwbkn1XY77S9Wu5SsIHokX/SQzN pTREEal1SJgFt7RdyZp+V8RTqQTq5liYwrBqZacIsrrFkeEc8ujlAg+6PXIANMQMCWEG PxsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6ZShaYCLP2mahVnkOJV68sDn3zmnQVjIJ+yCaqjG96c=; b=HTkZK6bZ0HP8OtDooWx7MTGzj7eYGYk8uF0IttU0OL4JzM/HoUuqzn1oaKnlXA+6ce jnQQlIEOBtios1AxwZNnt7ssZNx2uG3x1o7iWWHOPXd9GCXHMG12nkpb5hmQF6k0Vf8+ VkYdDjz+nOtEKyyQ932PK6y3ngCElx+JblOEwlb5xx5HzAc5wDkse8mHsiPvrlICb4i3 FYbn/3oD6/MQlF2ewSGYmDZ75b7xHS7nfe981hBnerWbWPNKNc/TwGeu64bq3qOpX96F SQSJ7EuVIcqlkrrxMhG5trHniV7qBTzMunVfPUJG9HXnlXO7RWAiVPa0ww4fABgBGdcd yzWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KyZ52w2IEsB5+I4pfXidVrWrmH04xPiDwO8CE7Xk7paV3FmjI UFOemyu4lq+ZsVN8Y4sysKfGa3A/5YJdDCZPmpVWEPnCXGM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwgzgmSBywKfcss8a/sS8SRe11bMeYHDN5JIO+RyHg+5+W5RNCE/CxkosZKHm2WbaeXjzz4qgKcA1gxrhvAreo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:162a:b0:34b:a293:a6f3 with SMTP id cu42-20020a056102162a00b0034ba293a6f3mr422229vsb.76.1654295591529; Fri, 03 Jun 2022 15:33:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220603202330.f4spdxyn34uiyy5v@illithid> <20220603213215.GO10240@mcvoy.com> <20220603214032.GQ10240@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 16:33:00 -0600 Message-ID: To: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001643a005e092b55a" Message-ID-Hash: NNMWIVCVYHAX6SWJ4677G6T6J6U5TUVD X-Message-ID-Hash: NNMWIVCVYHAX6SWJ4677G6T6J6U5TUVD X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000001643a005e092b55a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 4:17 PM Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS wrote: > Larry McVoy writes: > > >> I do not agree. Linux won because BSD was embroiled in litigation. > > > > Like I said, we experienced that differently. In my opinion, people lean > > on the litigation excuse when they don't want to admit that *BSD was not > > a good way to do operating system development. > > What were the differences? The BSD projects were: > > - 386bsd: run by Jolitz, with no input from anyone else > - NetBSD: forked from 386bsd, run by Chris de Metriou as a > cooperative effort between a host of indviduals (me included) > - FreeBSD: forked from NetBSD almost immediately, by a group of > contributors who felt that performance and device support on the Intel > platform was more important than maintaining hardware portability > The FreeBSD 1.x CVS tree shows that it started from NET/2 with the patchkit added on. It didn't start from the NetBSD tree that I've been able to find (and I've studied the early CVS history for the git migration extensively). And oral history from many of the founders who were also patchkit contributors also matches this recounting... Though I guess a lot turns on whether you consider the patchkit early NetBSD or not... I do agree with the rest of this, though. > - OpenBSD: forked from NetBSD after de Raadt established a kind of > record by being kicked off both the NetBSD and FreeBSD mailing lists. > OpenBSD forked from NetBSD after Theo had a personality dispute with the NetBSD folks. It had little to do with the FreeBSD lists judging from his email at the time and my early interactions with that project. Warner --0000000000001643a005e092b55a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 4:17 PM Tom Iv= ar Helbekkmo via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
Lar= ry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com= > writes:

>> I do not agree.=C2=A0 Linux won because BSD was embroiled in litig= ation.
>
> Like I said, we experienced that differently.=C2=A0 In my opinion, peo= ple lean
> on the litigation excuse when they don't want to admit that *BSD w= as not
> a good way to do operating system development.

What were the differences?=C2=A0 The BSD projects were:

- 386bsd: run by Jolitz, with no input from anyone else
- NetBSD: forked from 386bsd, run by Chris de Metriou as a
=C2=A0 cooperative effort between a host of indviduals (me included)
- FreeBSD: forked from NetBSD almost immediately, by a group of
=C2=A0 contributors who felt that performance and device support on the Int= el
=C2=A0 platform was more important than maintaining hardware portability

The FreeBSD 1.x CVS tree shows that it st= arted from NET/2 with the
patchkit added on. It didn't start = from the NetBSD tree that I've been
able to find (and I'v= e studied the early CVS history for the git migration
extensively= ). And oral history from many of the founders who were
also patch= kit contributors=C2=A0also matches this recounting... Though I
gu= ess a lot turns on whether you consider the patchkit early NetBSD
or not...

I do agree with the rest of this, thoug= h.
=C2=A0
- OpenBSD: forked from NetBSD after de Raadt established a kind of
=C2=A0 record by being kicked off both the NetBSD and FreeBSD mailing lists= .

OpenBSD forked from NetBSD after Theo= had a personality dispute with
the NetBSD folks. It had little t= o do with the FreeBSD lists judging from
his email at the time an= d my early interactions with that project.

Warner<= /div>
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