From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26209 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2021 22:33:55 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jan 2021 22:33:55 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A40A99C640; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:33:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4F19C5E6; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:33:30 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="ihN8AyQ9"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B8FE69C5E6; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:33:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f48.google.com (mail-qv1-f48.google.com [209.85.219.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A870A9C5E5 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:33:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f48.google.com with SMTP id p5so9993669qvs.7 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 14:33:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6xFqAkLUoQABVrg9eXFkp22z4zFakAiz1m9xS2ozwko=; b=ihN8AyQ9CFrpuhgNs8IXuv3yNSQea43YYnhLpknquMNQQn8+rk6YSO96hd95ibbj0n Fz6I+Oupw+OoErcWNpZvbKjxbTXbOlxFk1ahsKr+zXF8TitCnmvddOEAN1bok/V0InQ6 woP1MLp8yzdll6mF4o8qq5a2e5Qv99jzruau3Vw26+ew+1sLKebboCY659A8+/B4rSCJ oANFOggqmXjRX+Ejudn7FrAF8ydeRi5mN9aBhFiADjGqdiVyP4hbMcjxfsN4H2HorSgg x2iULSJI6YbmT0DxfEOrImenqwipifgBvxiiB3/bCqHALpe0u7KxQnWLu/SE2Vxmrou8 yztQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6xFqAkLUoQABVrg9eXFkp22z4zFakAiz1m9xS2ozwko=; b=TfyuKc+13zdLCbyrpZpnxqEQkyUZ7C+MGOW4aee0+4RXdPnbQ5RvXB2y9LE6c3KRPD 2E/y0aoyBJ6m+MgpsliQ9VXBPdKd6BTcrWHtFV84RVcjofC6vdIaWJZmlQ6CRP/ID5G5 LJGbI4FxibPz6pO/lLGxV6MfRHmzEQfLwG3+S1s9xrAFnWJaFvlDuzDncRRseGEuTprW c+44OnWczMbADi6QOtTfzn/oPw3m2iVG3dHhillhj74ZCNurK4lyeEkS+vdYHpRv6D+s r4y1aTLSCxG1Qgsnmf2hnnH0r/AQv0O+KuXIewlJHKoUCr0AO2XmqVOTwxcgIGkcK3BP 6bhg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533dM5MtfL+sUK+3eQ5jVD3oh//DIM6aElC6VN97merxkU5JhbSG 6EJjJh+a97vlyVbomZA7YY6LeFy70J7UV+z/B1x+zv/gKpq8bA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzr/PxyT1jZt1jMR40OblznPETkwF6d5x2pS2GEsW6pqYOZAXUmdFeCegDvGP6jiiVe8/mNhSlHDhKGLwzvr9A= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:f1ce:: with SMTP id u14mr6760252qvl.24.1611095605736; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 14:33:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <66d2d6e9-921c-8039-1d84-0461f9192a28@osta.com> In-Reply-To: <66d2d6e9-921c-8039-1d84-0461f9192a28@osta.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2021 15:33:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: heinz@osta.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000478e1705b9486d52" Subject: Re: [TUHS] ACM Fellow, Ken Thompson X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000478e1705b9486d52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 3:30 PM Heinz Lycklama wrote: > INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. (ISC) also ported a UNIX system to an > early VAX 750 computer running DEC's VMS operating system > starting in mid- 1978. ISC was in the business of porting the > UNIX operating system to many different computer hardware > architectures, mini-computers to mainframes, but the first > complete UNIX system port was actually done to the DEC VMS > system. We delivered the first UNIX on VMS system to a customer > in the Fall of 1979. Many of these systems were delivered to > customers in North America as well as in Europe well into > the mid-1980's. > What relationship, if any, does this have to V32? Or maybe "Was that based on V7 or V32?" is the right question... Also, this wasn't something that I had on my list... Any chance there's a paper / article / etc on this? And thank you for your remembrance... Warner > Heinz > > On 1/15/2021 6:29 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM John Cowan wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:14 PM Dave Horsfall wrote: >> >> >>> > Whose foray? Not DEC's. Eunice was built at SRI and sold by the >>> > Wollongong Group, who must have had Downundrian connections. >>> >> >> >>> It was >>> originally developed ca. 1981 by David Kashtan at SRI[1] and later >>> maintained and marketed by The Wollongong Group.'' >>> >> >> Where's the disagreement? >> > > Eunice post-dated DEC's first Unix offering by several years. They sold V7 > and later V7M before rebranding it to Ultrix. Eunice was 4.1BSD (later 4.2 > and 4.3) that Dr Kashtan grafted into VMS in ways that... provoke strong > feelings among reviewers... The TCP/IP stack that was inside of Eunice > would form the basis for Wollongong's TCP/IP offerings on VMS... A more > refined version, also done I think by Kashtan, was marketed by TGV and > there was always much rivalry between the two companies... > > Wollongong got its license because they were the marketing company formed > to market Dr. Miller's port to Interdata, and they later branched out > significantly because their license was so special... Or at least that's > the story they told customers and internally... I never saw the original > license to know... > > Warner > > > --000000000000478e1705b9486d52 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 3:30 PM Heinz= Lycklama <heinz@osta.com> wrot= e:
=20 =20 =20
INTERACTIVE Systems Corp. (ISC) also ported a UNIX system to an
early VAX 750 computer running DEC's VMS operating system
starting in mid- 1978. ISC was in the business of porting the
UNIX operating system to many different computer hardware
architectures, mini-computers to mainframes, but the first
complete UNIX system port was actually done to the DEC VMS
system. We delivered the first UNIX on VMS system to a customer
in the Fall of 1979.=C2=A0 Many of these systems were delivered to
customers in North America as well as in Europe well into
the mid-1980's.

What rela= tionship, if any, does this have to V32? Or maybe "Was that based on V= 7 or V32?" is the right question...

Also, thi= s wasn't something that I had on my list... Any chance there's a pa= per / article / etc on this?

And thank you for you= r remembrance...

Warner
=C2=A0
Heinz

On 1/15/2021 6:29 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
=20


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:1= 8 PM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:


On Fri, Jan 15, 2021 at 3:14 PM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
=C2=A0
> Whos= e foray?=C2=A0 Not DEC's.=C2=A0 Eunice was built at SRI and sold by = the
> Wollongong Group, who must have had Downundrian connections.=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0It = was
originally developed ca. 1981 by David Kashtan at SRI[1] and later
maintained and marketed by The Wollongong Group.''= ;

Where's the disagreement?

Eunice post-dated DEC's first Unix offering by several years. They sold V7 and later V7M before rebranding it to Ultrix. Eunice was 4.1BSD (later 4.2 and 4.3) that Dr=C2=A0 Kashtan grafted into VMS in ways that... provoke strong feelings among reviewers...=C2=A0 The TCP/IP stack that was inside of Eunice would form the basis for Wollongong's TCP/IP offerings on VMS... A more refined version, also done I think by Kashtan, was marketed by TGV and there was always much rivalry between the two companies...=C2=A0

Wollongong got its license because they were the marketing company formed to market Dr. Miller's port to Interdata, and they later branched out significantly because their license was so special...=C2=A0 Or at least that's th= e story they told customers and internally... I never saw the original license to know...

Warner

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