From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1943 invoked from network); 20 Dec 2022 03:13:09 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Dec 2022 03:13:09 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4A841BC4; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 13:13:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-f44.google.com (mail-ej1-f44.google.com [209.85.218.44]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B37E141BBC for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 13:12:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-f44.google.com with SMTP id fc4so26070175ejc.12 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:12:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rdiCo2jJ1PTlFUZmzYdZWoldBlrv3wg95YOi3KHlJ3I=; b=fUijP3sG4Md//LgqBUzaGzjrPaMfYW7GREkzwoAtSL8Di/XYsil8p/7FJ0IVVePQ46 9H6u+AjUm9/1JLIdLhtIkQ2DKCM6ud6vIf6td8GBFMB7uw0JxLcqL2QBNUx+/ZxDc9KV HZ/B03m/IpG+/OQgUZsBThe1L/6/qIA1LPrnkO+o0bIuXZEQrr4MONJ/zuJ+McQo8vgr +JvHnYBKw3z4ZC9OmPL1UGgvRggerCaB5XHyKGqGTAillkhUZvjLJsOYaFsWFKFLF4Kr FrmGXs5KTyjVHiWhnSSqjjTpSvc+rJgNXPUBN2M7H+77uOZrSQbKwASLkyNU5zE+S25l JEXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=rdiCo2jJ1PTlFUZmzYdZWoldBlrv3wg95YOi3KHlJ3I=; b=uTHV2zIbd5cmNyN3+LuhbraBTJLdlrSWfi0ZxLcBXSKY1Q1GfKffR+Hr1YXCgl1WsD mSQfQKssxE9Edjs/paZRI3YpfiXS5Tr03YoVOXqRSaHbfYMmWt7WkppZrYa69Pb+zteF XyNinnwu+TVshR17ca7lG4RUBFdxjoQz4umQUchCatDq6Orr7ZkFPWjtXwhIkkAVeMoG qWzk1Wj2Dhj7AbuxTjt8f59sEERunBoWXDxT4y0jwWyCW278qkvgk7xA9s2lIT2A4Eod /eQl9maSdqwd07dXFgJsNfZNRVkIOnXdjhF+xAMCde2TJFta+M0qU7tBd3FyqztfhsWK JqBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pnp3rHvi6pfkG2oZDsQJdL+KF4qdXV6h5/G/tolNdwLBMosq1QO 6KjFmkHIcBpfrp0TuyUKc8jlQTkDVATUuGqT94CnsIqUQRY8LQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf6yQ0wDcZcDA/yRrWwe2QkmpkHUhurVvVRiLgMw6wpRwaW742Di+gMaD0DFIqUSCPS5C397CfT3ZxlHK+aaSps= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:49a:b0:7b9:631b:7dfb with SMTP id f26-20020a170906049a00b007b9631b7dfbmr2447601eja.32.1671505918091; Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:11:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202212191738.2BJHcLBF024793@ultimate.com> In-Reply-To: <202212191738.2BJHcLBF024793@ultimate.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2022 20:11:46 -0700 Message-ID: To: Phil Budne Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007cfb0905f039cc0b" Message-ID-Hash: BNU2PQWTU2Z76N5QECUFHASXHJK72OBQ X-Message-ID-Hash: BNU2PQWTU2Z76N5QECUFHASXHJK72OBQ X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370 List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000007cfb0905f039cc0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Dec 19, 2022, 10:39 AM Phil Budne wrote: > The October 1984 BSTJ article by Felton, Miller and Milner > https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/otherports/ibm.pdf > > Describes an AT&T port of UNIX to System/370 using TSS/370 > underpinnings as the "Resident System Supervisor" and used as the 5ESS > switching system development environment. > > I also found mention at http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ch106.x09 > chapter 9 of http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ with footnote 96: > > Ian Johnstone, who had been the tutor at University of New > South Wales working with Professor John Lions, was one of the > researchers invited to Bell Labs. He managed the completion at > AT&T Bell Labs of the port of Unix to the IBM 370 computer. See > "Unix on Big Iron" by Ian Johnstone and Steve Rosenthal, UNIX > Review, October, 1984, p. 26. Johnstone also led the group that did > the port to the AT&T 2B20A multiprocessor system. > > I found > > https://ia902801.us.archive.org/3/items/Unix_Review_1984_Oct.pdf/Unix_Review_1984_Oct.pdf > "BIG UNIX: The Whys and Wherefores" (pdf p.24), which only offers > rationale. > > Also: > > "IBM's own involvement in Unix can be dated to 1979, when it > assisted Bell Labs in doing its own Unix port to the 370 (to > be used as a build host for the 5ESS switch's software). In > the process, IBM made modifications to the TSS/370 hypervisor > to better support Unix.[12]" > at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX#cite_ref-att-s370-unix_12-0 > > Is there any other surviving documentation about the system? > Any recall of what branch of AT&T UNIX it was based on? > [ since this original question hasn't been answered ] > V6. There were 3 v6 ports: two interdata ports (Wollongong and Labs) and one VM/370 port (at Harvard or Princeton). They are got to first boot the sane year, within a few months of each other Uts grew out of this early port. There's several blog posts about this and the TUHS archive has the initial port that was recovered from DECtapes recently. https://akapugs.blog/2018/05/12/370unixpart3/ is the last in the series. AT&T also did a V7 port, which I think is what is written up in the bell labs journal. I'm not sure I have a proper source for this other than comparing the two accounts. I don't know if research did this or another group. AT&T did the VAX port of V7 called V32, but v32 was little more than a swapping kernel that didn't do demand paging. This is where the Berkeley folks started to do paging with 3BSD. It is also where AT&T did their Vax port that other mailing list threads chronicled. Warner > --0000000000007cfb0905f039cc0b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Dec 19, 2022, 10:39 AM Phil Budne <phil@ult= imate.com> wrote:
The Octo= ber 1984 BSTJ article by Felton, Miller and Milner
https://www.bell-labs.= com/usr/dmr/www/otherports/ibm.pdf

Describes an AT&T port of UNIX to System/370 using TSS/370
underpinnings as the "Resident System Supervisor" and used as the= 5ESS
switching system development environment.

I also found mention at http://www.col= umbia.edu/~rh120/ch106.x09
chapter 9 of http://www.columbia.edu/~rh120/ with footnote 96:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ian Johnstone, who had been the tutor at University of= New
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 South Wales working with Professor John Lions, was one= of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 researchers invited to Bell Labs. He managed the compl= etion at
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AT&T Bell Labs of the port of Unix to the IBM 370 = computer. See
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Unix on Big Iron" by Ian Johnstone and Stev= e Rosenthal, UNIX
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Review, October, 1984, p. 26. Johnstone also led the g= roup that did
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the port to the AT&T 2B20A multiprocessor system.<= br>
I found
https://ia902801.us.archive.org/3/items/Unix_Review_1984_Oct.pd= f/Unix_Review_1984_Oct.pdf
"BIG UNIX: The Whys and Wherefores" (pdf p.24), which only offers= rationale.

Also:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "IBM's own involvement in Unix can be = dated to 1979, when it
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 assisted Bell Labs in doing its own Unix port t= o the 370 (to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be used as a build host for the 5ESS switch'= ;s software). In
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the process, IBM made modifications to the TSS/= 370 hypervisor
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to better support Unix.[12]"
at https://en= .wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX#cite_ref-att-s370-unix_12-0

Is there any other surviving documentation about the system?
Any recall of what branch of AT&T UNIX it was based on?

[ since this ori= ginal question hasn't been answered ]

V6. There were 3 v6 ports: two = interdata ports (Wollongong and Labs) and one VM/370 port (at Harvard or Pr= inceton). They are got to first boot the sane year, within a few months of = each other=C2=A0

Uts gre= w out of this early port. There's several blog posts about this and the= TUHS archive has the initial port that was recovered from DECtapes recentl= y.


AT&T also did a V7 port, which I think is what is writte= n up in the bell labs journal. I'm not sure I have a proper source for = this other than comparing the two accounts. I don't know if research di= d this or another group.

AT&T did the VAX port of V7 called V32,=C2=A0 but v32 was little more = than a swapping kernel that didn't do demand paging. This is where the = Berkeley folks started to do paging with 3BSD. It is also where AT&T di= d their Vax port that other mailing list threads chronicled.=C2=A0

Warner
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