From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17615 invoked from network); 29 May 2020 15:43:59 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 May 2020 15:43:59 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7790B9CA32; Sat, 30 May 2020 01:43:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4C5E9C863; Sat, 30 May 2020 01:43:27 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="aPJYV0vK"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A03BA9C1EA; Sat, 30 May 2020 01:43:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f194.google.com (mail-qk1-f194.google.com [209.85.222.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C35DD9C1C8 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 01:43:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f194.google.com with SMTP id c185so2576201qke.7 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 08:43:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5CWf0Pn8O/b7LDaXBlU80+YOxQDo7j8rmGCKg4dEBc0=; b=aPJYV0vKE3+R1scLROoVpklJQh85WHFQ2E3os0YjzHKPX7MjJEDn3kLmtapkT8mqh+ vNA4RU994nD1NHQfR/vO7Akl2+9EVb8DfeKhbByl9MNfY6zih7UPPrys5N9O66e42QRg ncfrnOqB+RjHyUMHx7wZWtzOM/aX0BQIcUuueq7jNC4oCmGSDpP4ddJ78qJTdFzQIWCj Y8n7jZKiaxnRZst0YPkYMGhcyxrJ+RObh/HG1pvoTsevVaTMhMlagHynU8JefkZYn1Pz v5ugxnm1OD5EUrHczLqN6NNNzgs4jbyiRDa46ijP5dPA7RRc4RsvRHrHjAWaCuRX6m/n qFnQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5CWf0Pn8O/b7LDaXBlU80+YOxQDo7j8rmGCKg4dEBc0=; b=tyLtZQB9qOgG6FQR8PuKXvqkNus2LFTkqSEnRZUtdzNskUdG6i0F/Sro2U5y6IWB4b Zli+iNH2QFfOq+o3Veexfetz6fDsoVVnj25YG2K5Mj8/Ypqze3y3ZhsQIq9zGVuxNe72 vzw0qdTrZXbtg3lGSLVUfHOioaf976VM52c75TYDhjB8MzVIrmvkiEXxxN88Md7QX3Tg LQkUj6gFwK8w2Cyp5J6pexqPbNrjEGq/6dJfZxcA9uokVWmXbgis2je+5j40iKkyInI2 W06QT+WIKCa1fTl1yZeKSRx4dg3NbSf3TdhQteMr0IAhDDKU3dBtCEHYZu9fG/ycaxt1 jEUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5327VCFrsYrpwmfghBCyc/QBpQvYGEx/2Gc/4jCHXod331FNIFoX ORR4okFI++VBCGknIVpUn/USWcEe3MFrDijXuFtMgg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVV3f+v/fU+15sts1dTyLCsBHmKjS3XfIZm0egmDQw7CYQBQFoBJ//epHw1dV+vfVsAlE3nwJZi6YoTaVctIs= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4016:: with SMTP id n22mr8324642qka.380.1590767003805; Fri, 29 May 2020 08:43:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1jeHk5-5LM-00@marmaro.de> <20200529001853.GB27423@eureka.lemis.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 09:43:12 -0600 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002ec6d905a6cb4e14" Subject: Re: [TUHS] fmt(1): history, POSIX, -t, -c X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000002ec6d905a6cb4e14 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:40 AM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:11 AM Michael Stiller via TUHS < > tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote: > >> It is also included in 2.9BSD, or was it backported: >> > Just recompiled. I don't think this was one he had to make any changes > too. As Mary Ann and I said, Kurt wrote as part of the UCB Mail package > [which includes delivermail(8) - which was the moral parent to > sendmail(8)]. > > The whole key is that Keith did not have a Vax at the Math department > (they had an 11/70 with max memory) and wanted all of the cool programs > that were being created on the Vax. Remember, VM is automatic overlays. > So first with the kernel, and then later with user code, larger and larger > programs were enabled and many of the programs for the Vax migrated to the > PDP-11, as people ran out of address space (IIRC: one the first user > programs that needed to use overlays was ex/vi. Again, as I recall the > original wnj version by then was such a mess, getting a new/cleaner code > base was a large impetus for Keith to start writing nvi). > > Anyway, many smaller programs 'just worked' and the original fmt(1) > command was pretty simple. As Doug so wisely observed: "It's hard to > imagine how this command could stray from classic Unix simplicity and intelligibility, > but Gnu pulled it off." > While Berkeley arguably bloated things somewhat in improving its functionality, gnu said 'here, hold my beer' in the 90s and we're still holding the beer. Warner --0000000000002ec6d905a6cb4e14 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:40 AM Clem = Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
<= /div>


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:11 AM Michael Stiller via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>= wrote:
It is al= so included in 2.9BSD, or was it backported:
Just = recompiled. I don't think this was one he had to make any changes too. = As Mary Ann and I said, Kurt wrote as part of the UCB Mail package [which i= ncludes delivermail(8) - which was the moral parent to sendmail(8)].=C2=A0 = =C2=A0

The whole key is that Keith did not have a Vax at the Mat= h department (they had an 11/70 with max memory) and wanted all of the cool= programs that were being created on the Vax.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Remember, VM is a= utomatic overlays.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So first=C2=A0with the kernel, and then late= r with user code, larger and larger programs were enabled and many of the p= rograms for the Vax migrated to the PDP-11, as people ran out of address sp= ace (IIRC: one the first user programs that needed to use overlays was ex/v= i.=C2=A0 Again, as I recall the original wnj version by then was such a mes= s, getting a new/cleaner code base was a large impetus=C2=A0for Keith to st= art writing=C2=A0nvi).=C2=A0=C2=A0

Anyway, many smaller programs 'just worked' and the origina= l fmt(1) command was pretty simple.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As Doug so wisely observed:= =C2=A0=C2=A0"It's hard t= o imagine how=C2=A0this command could stray from classic Unix simplicity and=C2=A0intelligibility, bu= t Gnu pulled it off."=C2=A0


While Berkeley arguably bloated things = somewhat in improving its functionality, gnu said 'here, hold my beer&#= 39; in the 90s and we're still holding the beer.

Warner=C2=A0
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