From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 2762 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2022 17:00:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Jul 2022 17:00:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FAD40D3A; Sun, 3 Jul 2022 03:00:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f53.google.com (mail-vs1-f53.google.com [209.85.217.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ECFA40CF1 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2022 03:00:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f53.google.com with SMTP id 126so5125165vsq.13 for ; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 10:00:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ga3b/NF/hbsTZ7TPJMlaq6HrWQaLKEWBBfdINgvMlDg=; b=ZE+aEDjRjQrqrnwBOPgSFW5IVB3OXvro6afTmql7Kim2RV3b63ZTsGKnrgQP+m2CDj FwSXxp7oG9VGW8Dsx4qbQUZN5yIKHRvRPY9SoRWn94O8DCAFJX3NgxUiW1EDDf1LPBJj yJqlgMFKU1Um9otRyc9idFvAPC5+XEkJSmQvwf6TZXKps6LP0w1u1VcHElvVot1drYon eIixA7WcIyo3HgNmKLg6SiAefwrKgNjetTeaxy+ZRsU6fHHLrWPSRC+L2o25Y3mEp33g weEV1jC0albGXfNwEzksxy/lDagXrsfZ4klkuQquth3mA+z42kR+M7YR893iZrKK1y76 bBfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ga3b/NF/hbsTZ7TPJMlaq6HrWQaLKEWBBfdINgvMlDg=; b=rZB65CE4SUhJ1J/PcJ17bDwngFbSYhaFKKOEzY0AloHhdYt3YVNj+/N0dsljTO0JSy ujGmC5SF20EaUmY8vfJznC8AVYMaWF020UbP6spzZqEzW/HA6USyGPaFtJ56qAgEvBId 5exJOsp3TJqjT5zUIUy7KyXGpUtFIbbZfIKwcQteFj4043YTq1LesZD/HSOnF3ZktvU6 L7lLl9fTVZl1IEfbufyzg8OQZUiRyckdx/kJ8CRwUeNPmX7ED2mHAL5Q62y00whg4wKt dtiju7HrwhPiHMBiAVGGDm4gXLtYKnAmaRPTIWq2RH4tDgbq2SPMg7IuvHcGKYh9Osq0 2WxA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9Wwsg9GOSeRynIyJepEO4JfPVfRAIPvFt6GKfnlMEa9v3wgiEQ +/6ccwS4qJlP3lnWbqhr+BZ+Cfx/kPyRCmuJ6NRdzg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1sjbzWtJuP6XDmqkIBRHYmJxm6GlAkZlrYRVRZKUfTOhQ8ev6sNqIBVUy5SeOqexfKaazDWF6CnJFb2ZtEyfNo= X-Received: by 2002:a67:4347:0:b0:356:37f7:6fa3 with SMTP id q68-20020a674347000000b0035637f76fa3mr15298533vsa.40.1656781156443; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 09:59:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 10:59:05 -0600 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004d013b05e2d56cbc" Message-ID-Hash: WVYS7VTJJUJH6QHSAP2GRRJ2RJDRVO2N X-Message-ID-Hash: WVYS7VTJJUJH6QHSAP2GRRJ2RJDRVO2N X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Douglas McIlroy , TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Typesetting Mathematics by Kernighan and Cherry, retypeset List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000004d013b05e2d56cbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 10:52 AM Clem Cole wrote: > If V10 was formally released, then yes - I would make that argument and > feel free to say it to the judge. > > That said, did Caldera (and/or Nokia) officially release it or are they > just 'not noticing' that it is available in the wild? > Alcatel-Lucent gave an official grant to V8, V9 and V10. See https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dan_Cross_v8/statement_= regarding_Unix_3-7-17.pdf which reads: Statement Regarding Research Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10 Alcatel-Lucent USA Inc. (=E2=80=9CALU-USA=E2=80=9D), on behalf of itself and Nokia Bell Labora= tories agrees, to the extent of its ability to do so, that it will not assert its copyright rights with respect to any non-commercial copying, distribution, performance, display or creation of derivative works of Research Unix=C2=AE Editions 8, 9, and 10. The foregoing does not (i) transfer ownership of, or relinquish any, intellectual property rights (including patent rights) of Nokia Corporation, ALU-USA or any of their affiliates, (ii) grant a license to any patent, patent application, or trademark of Nokia Corporation, ALU-USA. or any of their affiliates, (iii) grant any third-party rights or licenses, or (iv) grant any rights for commercial purposes. Neither ALU-USA. nor Nokia Bell Laboratories will furnish or provided support for Research Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10, and make no warranties or representations hereunder, including but not limited to any warranty or representation that Research Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10 does not infringe any third party intellectual property rights or that Research Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10 is fit for any particular purpose. So not exactly the sweeping "We own this and you can do whatever w/o restriction" license one would like, but still much better than "in the wild and unchallenged"... > I was under the impression that the only thing official is through V7. > But all the other versions have 'leaked' and are widely available, and > whoever owns that IP at this point, is not pursuing protection. I am > aware that Caldera ended up with rights of 'UNIX' - certainly through SVR= 5 > -- and they released V1-V7 and 32V under their license (pointed too in th= e > earlier message). However, I am ownsnot aware of who formally owns V8-V1= 0 > (I would assume Caldera also but that IP might have stayed with Lucent th= en > Nokia as part of that BTL IP transfer]. Also, did Nokia 'formally' relea= se > Plan9 or Inferno -- is there a document like the Caldera one? > =E1=90=A7 > Caldera did those about 10 years prior to V8-V10 being available. https://9p.io/plan9/about.html has details on plan9, but the latest versions are available under the MIT license. Warner > On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 12:34 PM Douglas McIlroy < > douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote: > >> > I understand UNIX v7 is under this BSD-style license by Caldera Inc. >> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf >> >> The eqn document by Kernighan and Cherry also appears in the v10 >> manual, copyright by AT&T and published as a trade book. Wouldn't the >> recent release of v10 also pertain to the manual? >> >> Doug >> > --0000000000004d013b05e2d56cbc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 10:52 AM Clem = Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
<= /div>
If V10 was formally rele= ased, then yes - I would make=C2=A0that argument and feel free to say it to= the=C2=A0judge.

That said,= did Caldera (and/or Nokia) officially=C2=A0release it or are they just = 9;not noticing' that it is available in the wild?

Alcatel-Lucent gave an official grant to V8, V9 and = V10. See=C2=A0https://www.tuhs.org/Ar= chive/Distributions/Research/Dan_Cross_v8/statement_regarding_Unix_3-7-17.p= df which reads:

Statement Regarding Research U= nix Editions 8, 9, and 10 Alcatel-Lucent USA Inc. (=E2=80=9CALU-USA=E2=80=9D), on behalf of itself an= d Nokia Bell Laboratories agrees, to the extent of its ability to do so, that it will not assert its copyright rights with = respect to any non-commercial copying, distribution, performance, display or creation of derivative works= of Research Unix=C2=AE Editions 8, 9, and 10. The foregoing does not (i) transfer ownership of, or relinquish = any, intellectual property rights (including patent rights) of Nokia Corporation, ALU-USA or any of th= eir affiliates, (ii) grant a license to any patent, patent application, or trademark of Nokia Corporation, ALU-U= SA. or any of their affiliates, (iii) grant any third-party rights or licenses, or (iv) grant any rights fo= r commercial purposes. Neither ALU-USA. nor Nokia Bell Laboratories will furnish or provided support for R= esearch Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10, and make no warranties or representations hereunder, including but = not limited to any warranty or representation that Research Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10 does not infring= e any third party intellectual property rights or that Research Unix Editions 8, 9, and 10 is fit for any = particular purpose.

So not exactly the sweepin= g "We own this and you can do whatever w/o restriction" license o= ne would like, but still much better than "in the wild and unchallenge= d"...
=C2=A0
I was under the impression that the only thing official=C2=A0is thr= ough=C2=A0V7.=C2=A0 But all the other versions have 'leaked' and ar= e widely available, and whoever owns that IP at this point, is not pursuing= protection.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I am aware that Caldera ended up with rights of &#= 39;UNIX' - certainly through SVR5 -- and they released V1-V7 and 32V un= der their license (pointed too in the earlier message).=C2=A0 However, I am= ownsnot aware of who formally owns V8-V10 (I would assume Caldera also but= that IP might have stayed with Lucent then Nokia as part of that BTL IP tr= ansfer].=C2=A0 Also, did Nokia 'formally' release Plan9 or Inferno = -- is there a document like the=C2=A0Caldera one?
3D""=E1= =90=A7

Caldera did those about= 10 years prior to V8-V10 being available.

https://9p.io/plan9/about.html has = details on plan9, but the latest versions are available under the MIT licen= se.

Warner
=C2=A0
On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 12:34 PM Douglas McIlroy = <doug= las.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> I understand UNIX v7 is under this BSD-style = license by Caldera Inc.
>=C2=A0 https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-lice= nse.pdf

The eqn document by Kernighan and Cherry also appears in the v10
manual, copyright by AT&T and published as a trade book. Wouldn't= =C2=A0 the
recent release of v10 also pertain to the manual?

Doug
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