From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6832 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2023 15:49:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Sep 2023 15:49:11 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE7F40FCA; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 01:49:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com (mail-ej1-x62f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58FE940AE6 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 2023 01:48:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-99bdeae1d0aso96375766b.1 for ; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 08:48:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1693756135; x=1694360935; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=dycuJUqqf6FWcquHgjlqiOcM0plsABHstjrW2STLi3E=; b=CAlIKS05BJqo1kX4ojmvUxNPmL9UO2oSVxevOJbQbDqROivlPZskJ5doC7vMXeniuw dwqh/40xhAdLzsCEzcDvUh2eIiixXNOjtH41yXz9PmSNMzb3zFUTDAkxEK3s7g2WP4/H 5GGllY8rsSIy4jGVJiByRCkJXDKBuy2n7FnSnJbfu7ekbvYNIy44OU9qNtF8Ht7gDPNB pocK9n//JLUbSUt/g8BZbiMaglHseS8JIndj2NgieDNk1fEltivpTuUZkZlkl0qF7eSo JI9Q0r5YmZT+1kk4ejuJkJVFD/nTT5mCE7DmFOFfK5g7/KTaEMbb8GDMNKU8OCXZgMXT kbEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693756135; x=1694360935; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=dycuJUqqf6FWcquHgjlqiOcM0plsABHstjrW2STLi3E=; b=VDFdAOybRORNqksJ11p93MncLWCVPFs5glAWu37Sidw+esTi64Q8MTqOna5jeWmRRg bN2wGXLvt01K63K0gdJEoJh1mrLvExEY2UcK7I1so89GbQPMhHpFGTVtAEXV9F9+PIxZ 5ymBXAQT7cyfZsRwPEEddBRhGIkSsWbFLPSTO9wg1IAnGlI8V1xerFq8MPu3BYlzBI5P PX3ogZLD/5ur6gQvosWZuWir7hwAsd6vyUCYbOAZyvrVDa5cDtgRZB53vTOI9cBDxGfM 1Y9C5XmctJgFWG9mVr5tDcnzEU3UnkEKWHMeTlUeJ6fGB22rchY9ObI/BCFDBV1wyfYk vXlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyCNyTtUOruIrgC8QOTbI1s/zyepr5AhqPzRXBPdco/rXZK0l0V YEyOujV/QVfY0JrRuiIyz1sey2+sXR95EXD3C1aZS949KVetmtMO X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEfBIAWGNjSuh1Eyq/ibheVQWrPaQ+wrCIO/odnxbhw9qgqJ3KTcOrviV1oOUUMCPEh9vT5RfvXGXVeydEcbCM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:15b:b0:9a1:ab86:5f27 with SMTP id 27-20020a170906015b00b009a1ab865f27mr5380633ejh.45.1693756135284; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 08:48:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 09:48:43 -0600 Message-ID: To: Ron Natalie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c7baf506047654b1" Message-ID-Hash: EX32DGLXB3N2DITJYQ67RMZHM5QS6PVV X-Message-ID-Hash: EX32DGLXB3N2DITJYQ67RMZHM5QS6PVV X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Tautological Eunuch Horticultural Scythians X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Were any of the commercial unixes source-available? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000c7baf506047654b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 4:42 AM Ron Natalie wrote: > Note that most UNIX was protected by Trade Secret rather than copyright > so there=E2=80=99s no statutory expiration date. > But only so long as they remain secret... there are a few leaks of early stuff in bitsavers... the leader broke the law, perhaps, but once the secret is out there, its no longer secret. See the 32V preliminary rulings for variations on that theme. System V and newer did have copyright protection as well as trade secret contract stuff... It isn't hard to find at least one copy of most of the major and many minor players. It's fair use to copy for study and commentary. But building a full system for commercial benefit is not. We were contractors for IBM so we had XENIX and AIX sources in our > facility under NDAs, so I don=E2=80=99t believe IBM dealt with it other t= han > OCO. > I did have a license for the source code for Interactive Systems IS/1 > but that was a fairly straight forward System V kernel. > Several variations on that are out there... What isn't out there are the full source code control trees. At least Sun distributed them. But so far only a symlink farm for that has been found. Warner > > --000000000000c7baf506047654b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Sep 3, 2023, 4:42 AM Ron Natalie <ron@ronnatalie.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Note that most UNIX was protected by Trade Se= cret rather than copyright
so there=E2=80=99s no statutory expiration date.

But only so long as they re= main secret... there are a few leaks of early stuff in bitsavers... the lea= der broke the law, perhaps, but once the secret is out there, its no longer= secret. See the 32V preliminary rulings for variations on that theme. Syst= em V and newer did have copyright protection as well as trade secret contra= ct stuff...=C2=A0

It isn= 't hard to find at least one copy of most of the major and many minor p= layers. It's fair use to copy for study and commentary. But building a = full system for commercial benefit is not.


Several variations o= n that are out there...

= What isn't out there are the full source code control trees. At least S= un distributed them. But so far only a symlink farm for that has been found= .

Warner

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