From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a5e0c4c6 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E5F429C2A0; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 02:41:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FEF19C27E; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 02:40:55 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="JIudvOnO"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8D78E9C27E; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 02:40:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com (mail-qt1-f170.google.com [209.85.160.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC6499C105 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 2020 02:40:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id d5so2005309qto.0 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 08:40:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wlUgCCn3hS+wivpS7IUJvNk4dzBBUD+UNzJ5+JXsey0=; b=JIudvOnOqBkDDrUpJVAzgUtKckPdcgUYRzIkHiucTnA/kRiNV1gdDMHuwrSy6QSB4K UDTUi4PmOauqsKzx0rB/WuthSwU7DHB5yYGAQvVLklt7bQa8uWMsTJOVA4Hc0I/CO6t1 Hdd1HwW/CNZk7Ed3WaKwwuSsZkvqfgx01O+CrTvHPyJ/szHKn8RtfblQ85lTtt6oulIZ 0L+TlRQuLpe+5GjtK5DjnHTo8U0q4DEw3x7taBadtfI/JKcXP5V3ixMutPFC9cNlQQoF Bgdctu6k6xPRzPiwaG9sACJIwcmfv98KHnFrKYvQMT/dFq+u76N/u7M+2e9p5bO8Ansj tRYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wlUgCCn3hS+wivpS7IUJvNk4dzBBUD+UNzJ5+JXsey0=; b=DLsSFJHlVftj/Jro2mnXODo97pT1LjqKYW79Cq2Tx/OC30T6+jtSCzvc6TVqvn9Zoj OtIAG3i/VBDKL8e3a9p9KsHiCEjbEOXT3jE35s2CQ+7X5yg6psMKBECEiI3RKvTwkAsh lZXiGhJbuzecgUpsip0z97Jn5Jw4GCYnS3LCjWEqdnx5d1hv1RjyEFkNfLeyHkpB9vy7 ZIez6N+rFBo1NlyUB5aVeFwMy0HQkNDPYb6MepiS4FrmNzFiLa9qL+UhjIlRTY4ZgYHW wHM3qNjOoZCQemA3E54UsQ6XcAYOSM+nATrdl6Sc0RkR5AhBJOi3GiWhhIc3b9pg8GKm pK3A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW5jprOO88kbcgjcFfFuZ5Olyr1CroM3EHy5o1X1Rf9rOWZxjDm R7VOgolgyVGi2uykif8td2lbKNlh6VxoJUocCGZJ9A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwf0Lm3DgVuD9MBLiM08JVkWXtprqR+qQagKKrQOIeWJGJ43t8SB7Z0VTQoBc8rEL1KJZurtcXgJt89Ov6l310= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1aa6:: with SMTP id x35mr2950143qtj.32.1579884050908; Fri, 24 Jan 2020 08:40:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202001222049.00MKnOOm082086@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <87h80m6u9q.fsf@vuxu.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 09:40:40 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a41699059ce56ba0" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix quix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Leah Neukirchen , Doug McIlroy Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000a41699059ce56ba0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:50 AM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> MERT absolutely predates PWB 1.2. MERT has papers starting in 1975 while >> pwb 1.2 is 1978 or 1979. >> > I can not say, I have any knowledge so I would trust Rob's sources, but > ... I also what I would have thought MERT predates PWB. Heinz, are you > able to illuminate any of these details? > The group that created PWB may well have started before the MERT group, at least from what I can find documented in early papers... However, the first release we have of PWB is labeled 1.0 and it is 1977. The ACM MERT papers are from 1975. > MERT was V4 while releases of PWB were V6 based. >> > I can verify and agree with the later of PWB 1.x being 6th edition, but > the MERT tidbit is interesting/thought-provoking. I frankly would have > expected the MERT folks to have started with something closer to 5th and > then tracked any significant differences as possible. > I believe that they did track releases. And this may be a case of rolling release. I'm told, but can't find a good reference for it, that editions were just a manual thing and that there wasn't a 'master tape' made of each edition until late in the process (like maybe as late as the 7th edition since I see references to different versions of the 6th edition, though that may be nothing more than the '50 patches' tape). This makes some of the traffic difficult. The Network Unix folks started with 5th editionish release, but had frequent updates during their work as the 6th edition was being prepped and then settled on the 6th edition to release their work (since the tapes we have of it are of a lightly-modified 6th edition (at least relative to dennis_v6). I'm also unsure of when the first "release" of MERT was, which may be critical to answering that question... Warner --000000000000a41699059ce56ba0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:50 AM Clem = Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
<= /div>


On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
MERT absol= utely predates PWB 1.2. MERT has papers starting in 1975 while pwb 1.2=C2= =A0 is 1978 or 1979.
I can not say, I have any knowledge so I woul= d trust Rob's sources, but ... I also what I would have thought MERT pr= edates PWB.=C2=A0 Heinz, are you able to illuminate any of these details?= =C2=A0

The group th= at created PWB may well have started before the MERT group, at least from w= hat I can find documented in early papers... However, the first release we = have of PWB is labeled 1.0 and it is 1977. The ACM MERT papers are from 197= 5.
=C2=A0
=
MERT was V4 while releases of PWB= were V6 based.=C2=A0
I can verify and agr= ee with the later=C2=A0of=C2=A0PWB 1.x being 6th edition, but the MERT tidb= it is interesting/thought-provoking. I frankly would have expected=C2=A0the= MERT folks to have started with something closer to 5th and then tracked a= ny significant differences as possible.

I believe that they did track releases. And this may = be a case of rolling release. I'm told, but can't find a good refer= ence for it, that editions were just a manual thing and that there wasn'= ;t a 'master tape' made of each edition until late in the process (= like maybe as late as the 7th edition since I see references to different v= ersions of the 6th edition, though that may be nothing more than the '5= 0 patches' tape). This makes some of the traffic difficult. The Network= Unix folks started with 5th editionish release, but had frequent updates d= uring their work as the 6th edition was being prepped and then settled on t= he 6th edition to release their work (since the tapes we have of it are of = a lightly-modified 6th edition (at least relative to dennis_v6). I'm al= so unsure of when the first "release" of MERT was, which may be c= ritical to answering that question...

Warner
=
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