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From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To: "Jeremy C. Reed" <reed@reedmedia.net>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] a book (was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS)
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:53:34 -0600
Message-ID: <CANCZdfpsE1GnaKknt0zcae5KyaWrS3gw1cCVgf_vjfKH-f0w4g@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.NEB.2.21.1909101307530.11702@t1.m.reedmedia.net>

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On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 7:31 PM <reed@reedmedia.net> wrote:

> There needs to be a book with stuff like this. There is no Unix history
> book that I have ever seen with the depth of information in threads like
> this and others on TUHS.  It would be a huge project and hard to tell if
> there would me more than just recognition and intrinsic rewards for the
> effort -- but maybe that is enough.
>

I think it would be cool, but we need better data visualization. There's a
lot of rich history here that people like me try to boil down to a few
ovals and arrows, but the real answer is much more complicated. We need the
equivalent to Mindard's analysis of Napoleon's march to Moscow and back to
show how things like awk entered, and where, and different 'sub editions'
and different lines of code maintained outside the overly simple narrative
of V1 -> V2 ... -> V7 -> 32V -> chaos. :)


> (As an example, I have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours
> researching a small subset: Berkeley Unix history. Attempted to contact
> hundreds of historical participants. Interviewed near 100 people; most
> by email, but some in person or by phone -- even postal mail! Building a
> massive collection of historical data. Read over 30 physical books
> covering very small parts of the story. Watched many videos (and notes).
> Getting documents scanned and sent to me. It is a very detailed effort
> -- such as a single long chapter on the Virtual Vax/UNIX / London/Reiser
> / Babaoglu story with 168 citations or the single chapters on the
> official unofficial patchkits, lawsuit, etc. -- and there is nothing in
> this field to compare it too. I have over 243 bibtex entries already and
> 215 citations left to add to my .bib file. During that time, I have
> published six other books, some written from scratch. Some have
> suggested I use Kickstarter or similar as a financial incentive to
> finish it off.)
>
> Since the Unix story is so huge, a first volume could be up through
> System III, for example, but maybe that is too much.
>
> Anyone know of anyone writing a thorough Unix history book?
>

I'd be keen to write up what I've found.


> Does it make sense to use a kickstarter?
>
> I may bring up in a different thread, but I am presenting about Unix
> history at Dallas Ft. Worth UNIX Users Group soon. They are planning to
> have two meetings (different months) dedicated to the history (50th
> anniversary).
>

If they are large enough, I could be persuaded to reprise my EuroBSDcon
talk at them, assuming people are happy with how it turns out....

Warner


> Jeremy C. Reed
>
> p.s. Sorry to mention this, but time is running out:
>
> $ grep -i decease /home/reed/book/bsd-history/PEOPLE | wc -l
>       17
>
> pps. My other chapters:
>
> beginning.tex:\chapter{In the beginning ...}
>
> 2bsd.tex:\chapter{Second Berkeley Software Tape}
>
> 3bsd.tex:\chapter{Welcome to Virtual Vax/UNIX}
>
> 2bsd-part2.tex:\chapter{2BSD becomes an operating system}
>
> 4bsd.tex:\chapter{4BSD}
>
> 43bsd.tex:\chapter{4.3BSD -- The Internet Server}
>
> 2bsd-part3.tex:\chapter{The 16-bit 2BSD continues}
>
> 43bsd-part2.tex:\chapter{To open source BSD}
>
> commercial.tex:\chapter{Commercial Unixes using BSD}
>
> 44bsd.tex:\chapter{4.4BSD}
>
> bsdi.tex:\chapter{BSDI}
>
> 386bsd.tex:\chapter{386BSD Part 1}
>
> lawsuit.tex:\chapter{Lawsuit}
>
> patchkit.tex:\chapter{The official unofficial patchkits}
>
> netbsd.tex:\chapter{NetBSD}
>
> freebsd.tex:\chapter{FreeBSD}
>
> 386bsd-part3.tex:\chapter{386BSD Part 2}
>
> bsdi-part2.tex:\chapter{BSDI part 2}
>
> openbsd.tex:\chapter{OpenBSD}
>
> netbsd-part2.tex:\chapter{NetBSD -- Part 2}
>
> dragonfly.tex:\chapter{DragonFly BSD}
>
> 3bsd-license.tex:\chapter{3BSD Software Agreement (1979)}
>
> 4bsd-license.tex:\chapter{4BSD Software Agreement (1980)}
>
>
>
> -----------------------
>
> echo Ohl zl obbx uggc://errqzrqvn.arg/obbxf/csfrafr/ | \
>  tr "Onoqrsuvxzabcefghl" "Babdefhikmnoprstuy"
>

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<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 7:31 PM &lt;<a href="mailto:reed@reedmedia.net">reed@reedmedia.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">There needs to be a book with stuff like this. There is no Unix history <br>
book that I have ever seen with the depth of information in threads like <br>
this and others on TUHS.  It would be a huge project and hard to tell if <br>
there would me more than just recognition and intrinsic rewards for the <br>
effort -- but maybe that is enough.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think it would be cool, but we need better data visualization. There&#39;s a lot of rich history here that people like me try to boil down to a few ovals and arrows, but the real answer is much more complicated. We need the equivalent to Mindard&#39;s analysis of Napoleon&#39;s march to Moscow and back to show how things like awk entered, and where, and different &#39;sub editions&#39; and different lines of code maintained outside the overly simple narrative of V1 -&gt; V2 ... -&gt; V7 -&gt; 32V -&gt; chaos. :)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
(As an example, I have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours <br>
researching a small subset: Berkeley Unix history. Attempted to contact <br>
hundreds of historical participants. Interviewed near 100 people; most <br>
by email, but some in person or by phone -- even postal mail! Building a <br>
massive collection of historical data. Read over 30 physical books <br>
covering very small parts of the story. Watched many videos (and notes). <br>
Getting documents scanned and sent to me. It is a very detailed effort <br>
-- such as a single long chapter on the Virtual Vax/UNIX / London/Reiser <br>
/ Babaoglu story with 168 citations or the single chapters on the <br>
official unofficial patchkits, lawsuit, etc. -- and there is nothing in <br>
this field to compare it too. I have over 243 bibtex entries already and <br>
215 citations left to add to my .bib file. During that time, I have <br>
published six other books, some written from scratch. Some have <br>
suggested I use Kickstarter or similar as a financial incentive to <br>
finish it off.)<br>
<br>
Since the Unix story is so huge, a first volume could be up through <br>
System III, for example, but maybe that is too much.<br>
<br>
Anyone know of anyone writing a thorough Unix history book?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;d be keen to write up what I&#39;ve found.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Does it make sense to use a kickstarter?<br>
<br>
I may bring up in a different thread, but I am presenting about Unix <br>
history at Dallas Ft. Worth UNIX Users Group soon. They are planning to <br>
have two meetings (different months) dedicated to the history (50th <br>
anniversary).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If they are large enough, I could be persuaded to reprise my EuroBSDcon talk at them, assuming people are happy with how it turns out....</div><div><br></div><div>Warner</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Jeremy C. Reed<br>
<br>
p.s. Sorry to mention this, but time is running out:<br>
<br>
$ grep -i decease /home/reed/book/bsd-history/PEOPLE | wc -l <br>
      17<br>
<br>
pps. My other chapters:<br>
<br>
beginning.tex:\chapter{In the beginning ...}<br>
<br>
2bsd.tex:\chapter{Second Berkeley Software Tape}<br>
<br>
3bsd.tex:\chapter{Welcome to Virtual Vax/UNIX}<br>
<br>
2bsd-part2.tex:\chapter{2BSD becomes an operating system}<br>
<br>
4bsd.tex:\chapter{4BSD}<br>
<br>
43bsd.tex:\chapter{4.3BSD -- The Internet Server}<br>
<br>
2bsd-part3.tex:\chapter{The 16-bit 2BSD continues}<br>
<br>
43bsd-part2.tex:\chapter{To open source BSD}<br>
<br>
commercial.tex:\chapter{Commercial Unixes using BSD}<br>
<br>
44bsd.tex:\chapter{4.4BSD}<br>
<br>
bsdi.tex:\chapter{BSDI}<br>
<br>
386bsd.tex:\chapter{386BSD Part 1}<br>
<br>
lawsuit.tex:\chapter{Lawsuit}<br>
<br>
patchkit.tex:\chapter{The official unofficial patchkits}<br>
<br>
netbsd.tex:\chapter{NetBSD}<br>
<br>
freebsd.tex:\chapter{FreeBSD}<br>
<br>
386bsd-part3.tex:\chapter{386BSD Part 2}<br>
<br>
bsdi-part2.tex:\chapter{BSDI part 2}<br>
<br>
openbsd.tex:\chapter{OpenBSD}<br>
<br>
netbsd-part2.tex:\chapter{NetBSD -- Part 2}<br>
<br>
dragonfly.tex:\chapter{DragonFly BSD}<br>
<br>
3bsd-license.tex:\chapter{3BSD Software Agreement (1979)}<br>
<br>
4bsd-license.tex:\chapter{4BSD Software Agreement (1980)}<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----------------------<br>
<br>
echo Ohl zl obbx uggc://errqzrqvn.arg/obbxf/csfrafr/ | \<br>
 tr &quot;Onoqrsuvxzabcefghl&quot; &quot;Babdefhikmnoprstuy&quot;<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

  reply index

Thread overview: 82+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-09-09  6:25 [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-09  6:36 ` arnold
2019-09-10 15:16 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11  0:28   ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11  3:53   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-11 15:36     ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 16:55       ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was " Charles H Sauer
2019-09-12 19:31         ` Kevin Bowling
2019-09-12 20:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 21:09             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses - Series/1 NUXI Ronald Natalie
2019-09-12 21:31             ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Warner Losh
2019-09-12 22:30             ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:12               ` reed
2019-09-12 23:22                 ` jcs
2019-09-12 23:29               ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses Warren Toomey
2019-09-13  7:06                 ` arnold
2019-09-13  8:30                 ` SPC
2019-09-14 18:29                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-12 21:29           ` [TUHS] IBM Unix source licenses [was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS Charles H Sauer
2019-09-11 17:49       ` [TUHS] " Richard Salz
2019-09-11 17:52         ` ron
2019-09-11 21:44           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 18:11       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 18:18         ` Richard Salz
2019-09-11 18:54           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-11 21:05             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:34             ` Steve Johnson
2019-09-11 21:57             ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:50               ` Arthur Krewat
2019-09-11 21:59           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 21:50         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-11 22:49         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  3:43           ` [TUHS] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  4:20             ` George Michaelson
2019-09-12  4:31               ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-12 13:44                 ` Tony Finch
2019-09-13  4:11                   ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13  5:54                     ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  8:00                       ` Peter Jeremy
2019-09-13 15:23                         ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:36                         ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-12  4:28             ` [TUHS] SCCS Jon Forrest
2019-09-12  4:33               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-12  6:12                 ` William Corcoran
2019-09-12 14:35                   ` Clem Cole
2019-09-13  5:22                 ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-13  5:50                   ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-12 16:45               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-12 17:29                 ` Clem Cole
2019-09-12 17:47                   ` Warner Losh
2019-09-13  8:12                   ` emanuel stiebler
2019-09-13 21:11                     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 21:17                       ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-13 21:48                         ` Bakul Shah
2019-09-13 23:12                           ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-13 23:03                         ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-14  1:55                           ` [TUHS] [SPAM] SCCS Larry McVoy
2019-09-16 17:23                             ` [TUHS] SCCS Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-16 20:31                               ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-17 17:57                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-18  8:48                               ` Eric Allman
2019-09-18 17:33                                 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2019-09-12 20:07             ` Nemo
2019-09-11 16:05   ` [TUHS] PWB vs Unix/TS Paul Winalski
2019-09-11 17:14     ` ron
2019-09-14  0:44   ` [TUHS] a book (was Re: PWB vs Unix/TS) reed
2019-09-14  2:53     ` Warner Losh [this message]
2019-09-15  2:18       ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15  2:39         ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15  3:24         ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-14 22:46     ` Clem cole
2019-09-15  0:58       ` Adam Thornton
2019-09-15  3:30         ` Eric Allman
2019-09-15  4:21           ` Larry McVoy
2019-09-15  5:17             ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:14               ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 20:21                 ` Jon Steinhart
2019-09-15 20:12           ` Clem Cole
2019-09-15 21:28             ` Dave Horsfall
2019-09-15 23:27               ` Clem cole
2019-09-15 23:45                 ` Richard Salz
2019-09-15  7:43     ` Andy Kosela

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