From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9695 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2023 16:53:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 Jan 2023 16:53:38 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E402424AB; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 02:53:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ed1-f53.google.com (mail-ed1-f53.google.com [209.85.208.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 801B4424A1 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 02:53:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ed1-f53.google.com with SMTP id g11so2394891eda.12 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2023 08:53:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zxZHq4TukEdZ4hSJ5G7mhog5waa7ZDZyaFCYKtITdxc=; b=fxLA0zkl9RmiTN4K4/8B3X7VWUs3ErocejuhqaD6KCNOlhUP4yNyJcERx2LZWs6M99 cA20CTowmYyf/+j57pASRSqcaj9F1r17SrukRJgtlEv4v6n4rQDhFmaiJMjCTvt4c+Rb fLuXWn86QxOTOxnoj4jfaXT1DrLuBdWYw59M0vScF3PL0AxWe0ujXomlQG8AULUBmlwc D2yfbe9kNoKnJTR0L6YpGsxGx143hAXaiEEqbIxho44px4G8xc6mNF7XMJPPO2G32eJY BoUh2vhtuWNhSWMxgV/tXZyft9nCLZo1PCBezIX45y1Um4e/CWgHdT/IQ1ohCJh/+fIg UOOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zxZHq4TukEdZ4hSJ5G7mhog5waa7ZDZyaFCYKtITdxc=; b=rnpwRAfd52BA2yWgIVT2fzBg/OuPWqztc+3mXMHUtP0W+eWY5lVRKcGNZ4weg4w0wZ 89035htPbR61NwWRNAyyPn60ph2QGzB+cFdjWDDxRlCowbL4GMM8LZKCi9JMwr/E0zsi 9Fw5joZrL7e+ih8QgASfXnEjzKxuHA9MU7ISC+NMd741vHOqAo2OubQZyABljXlKiXZ5 vPIg6PK25nSmHlfeUiQmnSEhO+VkQ7TgjcTedfIRRRVmH/RJUcV5nhDMqlyYj8OnENhA G+Hq/tg2ORSAyLiRHjQcm470XwQDm1bjzNUlFpQ+wzScGegQMd613P5FPdAWteJDi4RI hMQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWvheXM7dKC2wTSQ0yztHY70+5jtiDjCDzKiwPusSV1fKlD8b1J CX7vxhJabVz13VxVUoE3oIgReGVDy2HSlDBU/nGLdegmoveamg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+iwmUAGTquNDBEDx04QAmf4WL+wlU2++eT3GydIPqicqRuZGchxHiAi/E0Qx+jMSTbA7fkbHxnCMTbwFFkrZk= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:ce06:0:b0:4a0:afe9:338a with SMTP id d6-20020aa7ce06000000b004a0afe9338amr1470674edv.68.1674751930685; Thu, 26 Jan 2023 08:52:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0C5D8AF8-BAB2-48B5-854B-34E3A949DE50@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <0C5D8AF8-BAB2-48B5-854B-34E3A949DE50@planet.nl> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2023 09:51:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ea6b0905f32d914f" Message-ID-Hash: UETGXFBFKAWRFAA5NHV7AXMAQMBWRMH5 X-Message-ID-Hash: UETGXFBFKAWRFAA5NHV7AXMAQMBWRMH5 X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Earliest UNIX Workstations? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000ea6b0905f32d914f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:58 AM Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > > As a result of the recent discussion on this list I=E2=80=99m trying to u= nderstand > the timeline of graphical computing on Unix, first of all in my preferred > time slot =E2=80=9975 -=E2=80=9985. > > When it comes to Bell Labs I=E2=80=99m aware of the following: > > - around 1975 the Labs worked on the Glance-G vector graphics terminal. > This was TSS-516 based with no Unix overlap I think. > - around the same time the Labs seem to have used the 1973 Dec VT11 vecto= r > graphics terminal; at least the surviving LSX Unix source has a driver fo= r > it > - in 1976 there was the Terak 8510; this ran primarily USCD pascal, but i= t > also ran LSX and/or MX (but maybe only much later) > - then it seems to jump 1981 and to the Blit. > - in 1984 there was MGR that was done at Bellcore > > Outside of the labs (but on Unix), I have: > > - I am not sure what graphics software ran on the SUN-1, but it must have > been something > If this is the sun microsystem sun-1, the leaked sources online suggest that these initially ran a V7 port by Unisoft. This switched to a 4.2BSD port maybe before it went to customers as SunOS 1.0 if other leaked sources can be believed. If this is the Standford Unix Networked (?) sun, then I don't know. > - Clem just mentioned the 1981 Tektronix Magnolia system > - Wikipedia says that X1 was 1984 and X11 was 1987; I=E2=80=99m not sure = when it > became Unix centered > I believe very early. It ran first on the VS100, and I believe that those machines at project athena were running Unix, but I'm not sure of the cut over from Stanford V. Another thread posted the X announcement which was in June 1984. There was also a pointer to a blog about pictures of the W window system. None exist, it seems. The windowing system pictured in the glossy marketing sheets for the VS100 were for VMS and VMS Windowing System. I'd put money against the first X running on VMS. :) We had X10R3 running on Sun 3/50s in our lab, though more often they ran SunView since it was faster and more familiar to the admins that ran the machines. This was in 86 or 87 I believe. > - Sun=E2=80=99s NeWS arrived only in 1989, I think? > No. It had to be late 1987 or 1988 because I ran that on the Sun 3/60 that the Hydrology department that I worked for ran. I didn't run it often, mind you, and the 'generic terminal emulator for any termcap entry' terminal was cool, but it was just a notch too weird for a daily driver. Warner > Outside of Unix, in the microcomputer world there was a lot of cheap(er) > graphics hardware. Lot=E2=80=99s of stuff at 256 x 192 resolution, but up= to 512 x > 512 at the higher end. John Walker writes that the breakout product for > Autodesk was Interact (the precursor to AutoCAD). Initially developed for > S-100 bus systems it quickly moved to the PC. There was a lot of demand f= or > CAD at a 5K price point that did not exist at a 50K price point. > > > > > > --000000000000ea6b0905f32d914f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:58 AM Paul = Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote= :

As a result of the recent discussion on this list I=E2=80=99m trying to und= erstand the timeline of graphical computing on Unix, first of all in my pre= ferred time slot =E2=80=9975 -=E2=80=9985.

When it comes to Bell Labs I=E2=80=99m aware of the following:

- around 1975 the Labs worked on the Glance-G vector graphics terminal. Thi= s was TSS-516 based with no Unix overlap I think.
- around the same time the Labs seem to have used the 1973 Dec VT11 vector = graphics terminal; at least the surviving LSX Unix source has a driver for = it
- in 1976 there was the Terak 8510; this ran primarily USCD pascal, but it = also ran LSX and/or MX (but maybe only much later)
- then it seems to jump 1981 and to the Blit.
- in 1984 there was MGR that was done at Bellcore

Outside of the labs (but on Unix), I have:

- I am not sure what graphics software ran on the SUN-1, but it must have b= een something

If this is the sun micros= ystem sun-1, the leaked sources online suggest that these initially ran a V= 7 port by Unisoft. This switched to a 4.2BSD port maybe before it went to c= ustomers as SunOS 1.0 if other leaked sources can be believed.
If this is the Standford Unix Networked (?) sun, then I don= 9;t know.
=C2=A0
- Clem just mentioned the 1981 Tektronix Magnolia system
- Wikipedia says that X1 was 1984 and X11 was 1987; I=E2=80=99m not sure wh= en it became Unix centered

I believe ve= ry early. It ran first on the VS100, and I believe that those machines at p= roject athena were running Unix, but I'm not sure of the cut over from = Stanford V. Another thread posted the X announcement which was in June 1984= . There was also a pointer to a blog about pictures of the W window system.= None exist, it seems. The windowing system pictured in the glossy marketin= g sheets for the VS100 were for VMS and VMS Windowing System. I'd put m= oney against the first X running on VMS. :)

We had= X10R3 running on Sun 3/50s in our lab, though more often they ran SunView = since it was faster and more familiar to the admins that ran the machines. = This was in 86 or 87 I believe.
=C2=A0
- Sun=E2=80=99s NeWS arrived only in 1989, I think?
No. It had to be late 1987 or 1988 because I ran that on the S= un 3/60 that the Hydrology department that I worked for ran. I didn't r= un it often, mind you, and the 'generic terminal emulator for any termc= ap entry' terminal was cool, but it was just a notch too weird for a da= ily driver.

Warner
=C2=A0
Outside of Unix, in the microcomputer world there was a lot of cheap(er) gr= aphics hardware. Lot=E2=80=99s of stuff at 256 x 192 resolution, but up to = 512 x 512 at the higher end. John Walker writes that the breakout product f= or Autodesk was Interact (the precursor to AutoCAD). Initially developed fo= r S-100 bus systems it quickly moved to the PC. There was a lot of demand f= or CAD at a 5K price point that did not exist at a 50K price point.





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