From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, PLING_QUERY,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 55e587dd for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 04:06:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 18DF29BCA7; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:06:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AEE293D1F; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:06:29 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="XZdPWSqh"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CBFFA93D1F; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:06:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f195.google.com (mail-qt1-f195.google.com [209.85.160.195]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31A9093D06 for ; Tue, 15 Oct 2019 14:06:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f195.google.com with SMTP id n17so9262542qtr.4 for ; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 21:06:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vi4AneFNsWSUFtdtrdbZxi+LmqbwsYEiLDMugJOJiQk=; b=XZdPWSqhE48G/8KuXUTRIks+Pzf+59Gzd/ay/9sak9cC+yS4Ky5/jksWCUsMafF/32 MBnnrts13nqjMJY3v4cIYqYvJG1Kb6DuoWHF1jtA5zLEtHH3FWFEbYJM6CIMSrRspD8o lXtqT+wBWUQCdCwoIt7oFMsz0BXUBjJ5CyUVoIHeyoEkQDMnJryXdpJLHfcfA8o4UIgh lv4ABSDM9ku2azkw+mBH7x0ZksapLC64LohWV+4b1an3HvnsmmbMqRzyWqg3o5JRON28 LDkGIKlS8Iy8zNarz+M/5VRZPtjdN3EY++WwpY9aJzWZWbGzGzTeJtxLQU9i6dE2MMty 2Rlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vi4AneFNsWSUFtdtrdbZxi+LmqbwsYEiLDMugJOJiQk=; b=FdILethgo8l6gh/tcoj8owiqYmMYfRuZPhzsU2PrNMtvveR5zRiuxe3slLSn/v0FCa WWXurwiD4pPhc9L7p9ZYHcFADSBR4jhn8Day/RWQVezbvQhxNzctjA4mQ6LmwPTx5v3D 9DqOZxxqmGqzq0Ud4/PGqpu2QOGNo1cYv5wlFX5J1Hx3icyfa3vvynVa87icaKbV22Lo RFPoURIBTbqbIHontkTqx8AN7PpGQ4WRZYrext+ctvYsxKP0Jd6L6/hvCn1OfCZ5IsjS nN91emv2tG5tuExPZ6lrwdEA0o5h3OYGaFfn+Y0NSYUnga8YA9VEODsP6EGKtgCFNJO+ 73wA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWy88vlc4aevLwQTY/feTXI+SrP1sVTHh5NS7pAvBqkftOO/OhI sYzcKGqG/G/d2KYlAblV+jeBbigwd5jq1Y5+jNA6igHi X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxnVyIoNxVbPFI/DD10SjtNTaVB/REudTyPxo9kh/X0skl1VC3dnQ0NTGZQVTDVs9BUkBMRzd+W76zGH428IGQ= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:eb89:: with SMTP id x9mr15019307qvo.87.1571112384003; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 21:06:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 22:06:11 -0600 Message-ID: To: Andrew Warkentin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008d11a00594eb1bd1" Subject: Re: [TUHS] What was your "Aha, Unix!" moment? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000008d11a00594eb1bd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I had two aha moments. First was that I really didn't want the filesystem to do logical name translation. It was simple enough to do in the program. So no way to have the kernel expand /usr/share/fubar/$USER/fu. While VMS' logical names were a cool wart on its filename stuff, the whole ball of wax had too many special cases for different device types, permission areas of logical names, logical name table nesting rules, etc. Simpler was better. The second was the simplicity of the install... boot one file to prep the disk, one to copy a fs to the future swap system and a final one to get the ball rolling... for booting off of tape, on systems with no real memory, this kept what wound up in memory small enough to live in the sub Megabyte systems ot needed to work on... though once there was a lot more, this was left behind when you could just load one kernel with a ran disk to do all the setup... the different pieces of the install acted as a Koan for how Unix worked... Warner On Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 7:19 PM Andrew Warkentin wrote: > I didn't really have a single "Aha" moment, but I remember borrowing > some books on Unix from the library and realizing it was more powerful > than anything else I'd used (up until then, I'd only really used > DOS/Windows, classic Mac OS, and Apple II systems; as you can probably > tell, I'm quite a bit younger than many other people on this list). > Shortly afterwards, I installed Linux (initially Mandrake 8.2, but I > replaced it with Debian 3.0 shortly thereafter; I still have my > original Debian 3.0 install around as a VM that I use from time to > time) and never really looked back. I did keep a Windows dual boot > around for a while but that eventually went away (although I still do > have Windows VMs around). Soon after that, I decided I was going to > put together my own Unix-like OS; initially I was going to put > together a NeXTStep/OS X-like Linux distribution, but then later > decided I was going to write a QNX-like microkernel-based OS instead. > I still don't have anything that is actually useful at the moment, > although now I am making a bit better progress than in the past (I > changed my mind on several parts of the design and was quite busy with > other projects for a while). > --0000000000008d11a00594eb1bd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I had two aha moments.

First was that I really didn't want the filesystem to do log= ical name translation. It was simple enough to do in the program. So no way= to have the kernel expand /usr/share/fubar/$USER/fu. While VMS' logica= l names were a cool wart on its filename stuff, the whole ball of wax had t= oo many special cases for different device types, permission areas of logic= al names, logical name table nesting rules, etc. Simpler was better.
<= div dir=3D"auto">
The second was the simplicity = of the install... boot one file to prep the disk, one to copy a fs to the f= uture swap system and a final one to get the ball rolling... for booting of= f of tape, on systems with no real memory, this kept what wound up in memor= y small enough to live in the sub Megabyte systems ot needed to work on...= =C2=A0 though once there was a lot more, this was left behind when you coul= d just load one kernel with a ran disk to do all the setup... the different= pieces of the install acted as a Koan for how Unix worked...

Warner

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019, 7:1= 9 PM Andrew Warkentin <andreww59= 1@gmail.com> wrote:
I didn&#= 39;t really have a single "Aha" moment, but I remember borrowing<= br> some books on Unix from the library and realizing it was more powerful
than anything else I'd used (up until then, I'd only really used DOS/Windows, classic Mac OS, and Apple II systems; as you can probably
tell, I'm quite a bit younger than many other people on this list).
Shortly afterwards, I installed Linux (initially Mandrake 8.2, but I
replaced it with Debian 3.0 shortly thereafter; I still have my
original Debian 3.0 install around as a VM that I use from time to
time) and never really looked back. I did keep a Windows dual boot
around for a while but that eventually went away (although I still do
have Windows VMs around). Soon after that, I decided I was going to
put together my own Unix-like OS; initially I was going to put
together a NeXTStep/OS X-like Linux distribution, but then later
decided I was going to write a QNX-like microkernel-based OS instead.
I still don't have anything that is actually useful at the moment,
although now I am making a bit better progress than in the past (I
changed my mind on several parts of the design and was quite busy with
other projects for a while).
--0000000000008d11a00594eb1bd1--