From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17905 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2023 18:41:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Mar 2023 18:41:23 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F251643347; Thu, 2 Mar 2023 04:41:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97FEA43346 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2023 04:41:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id d30so57826825eda.4 for ; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 10:41:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; t=1677696072; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ffl3EMY2YQ831KO++GoftvgJQ4eYo+IReg4KVTOL4OM=; b=NW9nX010E+adCIgv7c8X4yymQVp1DqnXRuCYe5BODYdUde/DKcnzK54AXzrCR+57YX c8aAiqjMXMT8jsC4FsFvuOX+lVi20C0e246LvJMduGg4iO7sPcKnbs9irSh1KfyJiF2N od+ZQ3E3gXKHHgBvZfM2U5+vcQmCfe92FqaSBfzJUSfJAcdHVOF75hng52931v9IdMi5 8RtYbN26rs26MU65+N+7F4guLYbEf9ei46Db8SpmvehNPGR7/8Ux8n31EK4gBq9IY6mJ yPVaDvWCJI6QMOwaTHGOOKBwKhYbI/b92veNyZlnQvGQb2o+qdjrWQ+OhJ3nZgNfBb0z kEfQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1677696072; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Ffl3EMY2YQ831KO++GoftvgJQ4eYo+IReg4KVTOL4OM=; b=AUt3TIRv9ZM1CM5hitlqjGAx5Em7egaCUW+dxDT1i4R4IMth9V+cMarR2zypQy+Xl1 +vCqL9SFVfjU8PtQgT23MOSxT+8+q0poGgRg+y/5e8CX4tdyUFqQDSa6UXKm41tDb3b4 brDofg51vTY4DI6WRvOpMl/AMS6/ecmlykPzvkW2Zlm6Msc/MKD0TDrHIR3Mbuux4N/n 6w+5NbdjJGeR230sI2cGKgLygk43r0WNomAfM1/MKe8q50pa9cLT+V64vg2dVxwNNoeA Qwu/A7PWnEY/e84tzhu8tHkP5VzXbQAu+e/97IHeCLZNbuqm3O6/f4luZzuNaxxXTIlK kzSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKX/n6pfofydxdQoxuWdJlutvVkZVxI8Jw5ZdNI30T/Z73oGrEgL 5Otf3mPOVFvHSO175pQV7wujUw/owYeMRe6OsPFwTPORDq3eOg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/3R68nna0/vXto+t24cg5hqRdA9NxhNcF6HaCp6RHZfELuvLehf3m39Az42Bi3qVfpI9vxa5s/dzdUQwJNGEI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:9f25:b0:8f5:2e0e:6def with SMTP id fy37-20020a1709069f2500b008f52e0e6defmr11777224ejc.0.1677696071719; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 10:41:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2cfef728-ef06-20e4-e29e-9a0c83af8334@gmail.com> <9AE07C8D-0117-4E73-AD4D-BC24AFABBC65@canb.auug.org.au> In-Reply-To: <9AE07C8D-0117-4E73-AD4D-BC24AFABBC65@canb.auug.org.au> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2023 11:41:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: steve jenkin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000656e1305f5db0ec3" Message-ID-Hash: X3BAQSSLZJ5XIFBL73YXR7MY37EWOJ46 X-Message-ID-Hash: X3BAQSSLZJ5XIFBL73YXR7MY37EWOJ46 X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Unix Systems Administration Texts List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000656e1305f5db0ec3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 1:34=E2=80=AFAM steve jenkin wrote: > However, the University of Colorado Boulder environment was much larger i= n > some ways than any I worked in and met very different needs. > They had to cope with many students printing jobs, resetting passwords, > filling up disk quotas, email queues and more - with an admin group staff= ed > mainly by undergrads, I believe. > csops at CU did all the sysadmin for a time of the Unix machines. It was mostly random undergrads that could be trusted to do these tasks (many would later go on to be well known in open source and other places like Todd Miller), with the occasional more senior person overseeing them. This was not a group that had an excess of resources. The user community was also not very forgiving. The preference for doing things right vs hacks came from many painful instances where the hacks wound up costing extra time. It was also an ideal, not an absolute. Evi and the csops folks were very pragmatic, and often would do a hack to get things going or keep them going while doing things right to keep what we'd call today 'technical debt' sane. Evi was a hoot! I still miss seeing her from time to time... I'm still half expecting her to show up after being lost at sea for a decade now :(. Warner --000000000000656e1305f5db0ec3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 1:34=E2=80=AFA= M steve jenkin <sjenkin@canb= .auug.org.au> wrote:
However, the University of Colorado Boulder environment was much larger in = some ways than any I worked in and met very different needs.
They had to cope with many students printing jobs, resetting passwords, fil= ling up disk quotas, email queues and more - with an admin group staffed ma= inly by undergrads, I believe.

csops at= CU did all the sysadmin for a time of the Unix machines. It was mostly ran= dom undergrads that could be trusted to do these tasks (many would later go= on to be well known in open source and other places like Todd Miller), wit= h the occasional more senior person overseeing them. This was not a group t= hat had an excess of resources. The user community was also not very forgiv= ing.

The preference for doing things right vs hack= s came from many painful instances where the hacks wound up costing extra t= ime. It was also an ideal, not an absolute. Evi and the csops folks were ve= ry pragmatic, and often would do a hack to get things going or keep them go= ing while doing things right to keep what we'd call today 'technica= l debt' sane.

Evi was a hoot! I still miss see= ing her from time to time... I'm still half expecting her to show up af= ter being lost at sea for a decade now :(.

Warner<= /div>
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