From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9388 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2022 22:21:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Sep 2022 22:21:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1328440A1A; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:21:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f42.google.com (mail-vs1-f42.google.com [209.85.217.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F153640A19 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 08:21:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f42.google.com with SMTP id 129so8325740vsi.10 for ; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:21:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=MuIexpTwlEsgxjYJQIgGyGloCTBNKy3YamDOQ6K/GLY=; b=2XIZgyof5MQuxmgob5dZZvAHIgE/UAHGMVpFmfwO2wslUIOKIoOr+/z6q2OilXiE6o bb+AD0QDrBOUhj9QPKuazzyOwdafMjka+5LDyyQZv8wkciaT7PI5E2+FW65pnTqfr6Zl 68G5ww4g/t1rSyHeo8gJDktPag4yC+vZ2wvabGGIJDAVV4SsRuaQFrDlPhVT6B6PxAty e2AEvMLgHrYnknJzsZR7ONX7XbvtK5pas6tQxo7/6g9RFRhfizMVwzojYHu3l2QXaMIt oO1Oe3mumqBPJ6WocB6EkVNQdMgfaVs+xlI5OIrVAh9+mlC7YFZ58x99oqYV/6E/veFb 8+TQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=MuIexpTwlEsgxjYJQIgGyGloCTBNKy3YamDOQ6K/GLY=; b=3OcE+rwJjghP7HuIfXCYLeLP/8MqvnotaAUgXzJQFJHywUv54awVaFZESw83ppUQRk YJFUCoaWNAz/SNKNl/a+Mb/1O1eQKjpRSRTnwZcv141HHeBAi4xXPEtSsnsoFmHjoi46 NWYAqNPT3lKMg/oCbXVdI8npeFzaOaTeVJJj4Jhy0IxaHZMpHioIxgh/tvqFVMNS4tJQ r0yTSNgaXlvppe0e98XskH+XdDxRdJayNsB/PwV3bE0nQoPWmLUjkAT1hXwsOXXHv9tQ lfApL6RYDj8sxAtHOWuzbWoGOlrdCMYERHhhOs5NDh4m2nAaTgEbGbV3AiFyNONrcZku tBBA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1gB3NBL/bpP2S3QR4MEpDPCCZ2RNPJR0wEUO1F+c7o4AGha2N8 yKp9fHxqAAWOUZKgKmfq+H02H0/JWNVrnN+ipD/TBFcF2Mg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5rpjZenwHaMSjZCfkPWz33yF8S01y6cvNr38l91hVlzEFpXF6cGZHX889xBeD2/6+GiFDztWu+bBknMrZUxN8= X-Received: by 2002:a67:fb8a:0:b0:398:9d72:bddf with SMTP id n10-20020a67fb8a000000b003989d72bddfmr194876vsr.38.1663798813945; Wed, 21 Sep 2022 15:20:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 16:20:02 -0600 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048826805e93759f5" Message-ID-Hash: GKDIXG2YYLA6RBQHIL2UQW5NSP6AOEGI X-Message-ID-Hash: GKDIXG2YYLA6RBQHIL2UQW5NSP6AOEGI X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Early BSD license thread List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000048826805e93759f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 4:07 PM Bakul Shah wrote: > On Sep 21, 2022, at 8:25 AM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > That makes a lot of sense. When there was a name, it was preserved, but a > huge amount of the sources had nothing at all in the source files to > identify it. One big area of contribution was into the kernel where the > options sometimes contained the name of where the code came from. In the > 2BSD kernels we see eg TEXAS_AUTOBAUD, MENLO_OVLY, MENLO_KOV, MENLO_JCL, > MPX_FILS, CGL_RTP and a bunch of UCB_ names. It's clear the non UCB ones > came from elsewhere, but there's no info on where they came from (they are > documented in setup.5 at least so I know what they are). So given the > sparseness of the early marking for provenance, the coments make more sense > and give a better timeframe to it. > > > Recall that the US joined the Berne Convention in 1988. As I recall prior > to that you had to stick to some copyright formalities such as putting your > copyright & year in the source code. As I recall the US law didn't protect > your copyright if you didn't do this in sources. This may have played a > part in UCB adding a copyright source files that didn't have anything? I > could be wrong but these are just some random bits picked up at the time. I > did get in the habit of putting at least a one line copyright notice by > default starting in 1981 (either for whatever company I worked for at the > time or my own copyright for code I wrote on my own at home). > Indeed. One of the reasons that USL settled was because they released 32V without the proper copyright notices (whatever that means, but in this case there were none at all in the media) and the judge issued a preliminary ruling declaring that 32V didn't have copyright protection. They were scared of losing that and that motivated them to settle. Interestingly, in the settlement, USL specifically agrees not to pursue trade secret claims against anybody using 4.4BSD-lite, but copyrights aren't mentioned, outside of the restricted files getting an USL copyright added: "c. USL agrees that it shall take no action against any person who utilizes any methods and concepts in the restricted files which as of this date have become available to the general public by acts not attributable to the University, its employees or students...." and "i. USL agrees that it shall take no action base on the use or distribution by any person of material contained in the Unrestricted Files." also (for another message in the thread) "f. USL agrees that it shall affix the University Copyright Notice and the University Acknowledgement to the files in exhibit C.." Where the wording of those phrases is defined elsewhere in the settlement. And there's about 8 paragraphs as to exactly how AT&T will do this in both code and documentation... Warner --00000000000048826805e93759f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 4:07 PM Bakul= Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>= ; wrote:
imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

That mak= es a lot of sense. When there was a name, it was preserved, but a huge amou= nt of the sources had nothing at all in the source files to identify it. On= e big area of contribution was into the kernel where the options sometimes = contained the name of where the code came from. In the 2BSD kernels we see = eg TEXAS_AUTOBAUD, MENLO_OVLY, MENLO_KOV, MENLO_JCL, MPX_FILS, CGL_RTP and = a bunch of UCB_ names. It's clear the non UCB ones came from elsewhere,= but there's no info on where they came from (they are documented in se= tup.5 at least so I know what they are). So given the sparseness of the ear= ly marking for provenance, the coments make more sense and give a better ti= meframe to it.

Recall that the= US joined the Berne Convention in 1988. As I recall prior to that you had = to stick to some copyright formalities such as putting your copyright &= year in the source code. As I recall the US law didn't protect your co= pyright if you didn't do this in sources. This may have played a part i= n UCB adding a copyright source files that didn't have anything? I coul= d be wrong but these are just some random bits picked up at the time. I did= get in the habit of putting at least a one line copyright notice by defaul= t starting in 1981 (either for whatever company I worked for at the time or= my own copyright for code I wrote on my own at home).

Indeed. One of the reasons that USL settled w= as because they released 32V without the proper copyright notices (whatever= that means, but in this case there were none at all in the media) and the = judge issued a preliminary ruling declaring that 32V didn't have copyri= ght protection. They were scared of losing that and that motivated them to = settle.

Interestingly, in the settlement, USL spec= ifically agrees not to pursue trade secret claims against anybody using 4.4= BSD-lite, but copyrights aren't mentioned, outside of the restricted fi= les getting an USL copyright added:

"c. USL a= grees that it shall take no action against any person who utilizes any meth= ods and concepts in the restricted=C2=A0
files which as of this d= ate have become available to the general public by acts not attributable to= the University,
its employees or students...."
and "i. USL agrees that it shall take no action base on t= he use or distribution by any person of material
contained in the= Unrestricted Files."

also (for another messa= ge in the thread)

"f. USL agrees that it shal= l affix the University Copyright Notice and the University Acknowledgement = to the
files in exhibit C.." Where the wording of those phra= ses is defined elsewhere in the settlement. And there's
about= 8 paragraphs as to exactly how AT&T will do this in both code and docu= mentation...

Warner
--00000000000048826805e93759f5--