From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 84bd7dbf for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 23:23:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 13C9C9B934; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 09:23:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CC19B92B; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 09:22:47 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="im4aAkXq"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5A9909B92B; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 09:22:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f176.google.com (mail-qt1-f176.google.com [209.85.160.176]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BFBE9B92A for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 09:22:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f176.google.com with SMTP id w47so13243210qtk.4 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:22:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=iP+z/MDJBpiILlw1HdWA2uCZ98rPhJgcmgSwSMZGtf4=; b=im4aAkXqJSbMKA/XIN49Sci6zpbSOyt1+578D2KralYDjG+/gGN0pu95c4C+hfLn5e h6MY4idRUQXPVN4ZYpaVVCYZ8B+qa1dcNpv8Q+8sq30dgEnLngbTtTVXrmOSK+8Yj7uz JIgqd3WLFtyIEnWmg1UGW+mZ7S8LIeGVa0QjTZ7XqkILjKICP7etkFUc10/z05M72Jd8 x3G+RbgsoDmYSWRsLFQ8mS9k5mjExnvTpRVG8KEhPI03sYwDZplc/TjrHbffd+nS7Wvi rHInPv9xF2T6ezITtf7VNdaxgCZzR1vZZyPHzhkYWJJAoITKR/IcmVPe4AlPDJbmdBoI E3jQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=iP+z/MDJBpiILlw1HdWA2uCZ98rPhJgcmgSwSMZGtf4=; b=d/MyJJRiflhNxY88zNDrkwCf91ZMQ9f6S0uCyjworOpaMc2zeQq59L0F8XPixOlL9Y A5HEFwOfRmtOUBHBxeAyPrddCUYZf6b36ZenfMRkku3ByCwoPMeumhXv3PnWByw4irBZ 0mLO4J2JR3sizAQvd7Vq1NGis8a3nxIePIyGOp2WNQtwYLVXpwNYNV1O7wUCd+9UILFP uzcsm8z1PDrXrE9PR764KxhqdRipMG6pf+N5k6PPV5Btap4VrIDfFxZyydJCLIs4nRnz myHHo8EQpcnFpxy2GMTYA3MxV0btMTnuU24gP6ebHXs3Q+TdXLMiASFJrY3frm2zxCjC Yz9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVQuhLpsAuPUoByLCpAk6hQ1I3uyLsTF63GFFq2JlycNRQuCEhi ergfkmc+XCS5bUsVjbGSvmYzpLknmsvy/96iRizkng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw7HZDeRjjZqdBusHHKu5hk/qrQQ/m4deIi8z2C9quhb9KBwg971SNkAzQS+W19wChUCFoesAEeU0bpTpXr02E= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3863:: with SMTP id r32mr15253551qtb.291.1581981762921; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 15:22:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202002171520.01HFKqKi026749@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <4d252035b323b7583c5760c952d1982c@firemail.de> <202002171839.01HId8FT1358073@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:22:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Thomas Paulsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000053794059ecdd5cf" Subject: Re: [TUHS] man Macro Package and pdfmark X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000053794059ecdd5cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:51 PM Thomas Paulsen wrote: > >Like Clem, I prefer concise man pages and longer, separate documents for > those programs where it makes sense. I consider man pages to be quick > references. > reasonable. > I write all my quick references in plain nroff since many years. There are > gui editors, gui viewers, and lots of cgi search engines && web viewers > even with hyperlinks. Even under good ole emacs techinfo is redundant, as > 'woman' can do hyperlinks, which were the only advantage of techinfo in a > remote past, however time goes on. Today we have help2man, hence the lazy > ones can do man pages too. > > > 'The problem is that the ecosystem has been fragmented by people doing > their "documentation" in their preferred formats instead of in a common > (man) format. This makes the experience one of "is there any > documentation?" followed by "what's the incantation to get it?" When you're > looking for the documentation for pdf2svg, for example, and there is no man > page, how long does it take to figure out that there is no documentation at > all? ' > > that's true. In the early 90ths they forced us writing quick references > with .html. Big confusion. Soon later I found myself converting .html back > into nroff because that's the UNIX style. > I know some of us don't like to hear that, but with regards to the gnu > tool chain, Richard did a lot of good things, however the politics of > replacing man by techinfo definitely wasn't. > I think this showed the wisdom of deleting binaries from /usr/bin when there was no man page for them... Warner --000000000000053794059ecdd5cf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:51 PM Thoma= s Paulsen <thomas.paulsen@= firemail.de> wrote:
>Like Clem, I prefer concise man pages and longer, separate d= ocuments for those programs where it makes sense. I consider man pages to b= e quick references.
reasonable.
I write all my quick references in plain nroff since many years. There are = gui editors, gui viewers, and lots of cgi search engines && web vie= wers even with hyperlinks. Even under good ole emacs techinfo is redundant,= as 'woman' can do hyperlinks, which were the only advantage of tec= hinfo in a remote past, however time goes on. Today we have help2man, hence= the lazy ones can do man pages too.


'The problem is that the ecosystem has been fragmented by people doing = their "documentation" in their preferred formats instead of in a = common (man) format. This makes the experience one of "is there any do= cumentation?" followed by "what's the incantation to get it?&= quot; When you're looking for the documentation for pdf2svg, for exampl= e, and there is no man page, how long does it take to figure out that there= is no documentation at all? '

that's true. In the early 90ths they forced us writing quick references= with .html. Big confusion. Soon later I found myself converting .html back= into nroff because that's the UNIX style.
I know some of us don't like to hear that, but with regards to the gnu = tool chain, Richard did a lot of good things, however the politics of repla= cing man by techinfo definitely wasn't.

=
I think this showed the wisdom of deleting binaries from /usr/bin when= there was no man page for them...

Warner=C2=A0
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