From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5971 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2022 16:38:55 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Aug 2022 16:38:55 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81BE40246; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 02:38:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f54.google.com (mail-vs1-f54.google.com [209.85.217.54]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEBB840123 for ; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 02:38:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f54.google.com with SMTP id 67so1334901vsv.2 for ; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc; bh=2Ojhww48ZLzqeyY8Jhh/Ngq6rRpihqnO6YnL2zXlYiY=; b=MAs1/00CLh1oPoZebtQYT04W4muojntNr3VTNTjCcR5NdGqgCItSwgHas5b8mwCaBy GULliSEs+iB9WxbtK3T1H38Js+pZmfVzVP22BWGlwYOpvQyzMGQBZGvjo0zV6U/BfIHj Ek8gVqaqg8CbxvCDU3LdXuAYxEpBgDXlU1/DhIJSUlUPueh0a0htLOD1r6QYt3t3opVX txjX4TS5sfVseJzoUAyeI/tCRAq3yLLRKk+DSbbPYgejJeHuci6FwUfhOOMKXH5Bx9KN 1RlerVc1GMJIAg4MwemdRgf4v3hNCRWlvVvMPqbDh8PycwNdtWqsd6uzR+M6pipDNiuk 3OkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=2Ojhww48ZLzqeyY8Jhh/Ngq6rRpihqnO6YnL2zXlYiY=; b=3lg0HcEQ/p5ce5nwDelnP4lS1HrtvxOdE7R/FxTZaFCWpI15XmWLSw5UDEsbV7K8Kh nzvYtR0Rl6XZA91a5FGaXtfzXIGV1lT4itkD8Q+vo1uNlsOlUiINBsI9xC/uccNMGKrk YbNhWMfJWj7RBSvwq41QBFiv4r26SiqhTxlCR1uvNJdzZl0cGkJagda4gB1esZdfKNLA jlzRakyswVrJNoZGezVlpYyr7GqX/7ZDWf5jn++1BzxvCWraVqF7FMvaIaAXbB9GopnI 2ts+BbImURDIa0glAr1M0FN98k8Wte1gs6WCAQX0pajSlCZgV9zw4+qYqoDXZpItpLbW rM+w== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2ro2DpVFsJ4Et8vFgbPyxp+NsNco9xb+KcWIa+jxIclaYoUa6C gPXG4k7vDLLnNfALJiDTtrMCW4KPmhvXw/a+o9eluFURRau6jQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4SCawRzDgr1shDyeLYjPx173OOSxGUs5rl+F0+F9H9NvMqUsqzMPwfWTFoWXUVFgzZnJtSrmTyWoGh8439TQc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:1494:b0:37e:2dc5:870d with SMTP id d20-20020a056102149400b0037e2dc5870dmr2307869vsv.6.1660322263736; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 09:37:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <94434410-26C2-48D5-AC8F-260DC3D3AA4B@planet.nl> <202208121115.27CBFq0A028975@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 10:37:32 -0600 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Gray Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be419805e60de6fd" Message-ID-Hash: WKPQDXBPFXYZGSRTUEZD2GLFQGU3KLUD X-Message-ID-Hash: WKPQDXBPFXYZGSRTUEZD2GLFQGU3KLUD X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Paul Ruizendaal , segaloco X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Documents for UNIX Collections List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000be419805e60de6fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:06 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:42 AM Jonathan Gray wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >> > Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote: >> > >> > > I=E2=80=99m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have est= ablished >> > > that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to >> optimize >> > > these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not >> appear >> > > in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather >> that >> > > it was not included there either. >> > >> > I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documen= ts >> > did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the >> > 3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc. >> > >> > Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a questio= n. >> > >> > I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could >> > very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-) >> >> "Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced >> new IPC mechanisms" >> >> from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis >> >> https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin= _Pirzada-1988-PhD-Thesis.pdf > > > But also "Release 4.2 was launched in February 1982 for both the 3B & the > DEC > machines. It contained improvements to the data communications and > networking > software and more mature IPC" though it goes on to say 4.2 was > provisional. 5.0 > did have more things from CBUNIX: init and getty. > > I've also found this: > > https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix/c/-H9x36DMOBQ/m/P_G_s9SJBrgJ > > "Eventually, UNIX/TS was augmented to have > many of the features present in CB-UNIX (this was done by Roger Faulkner > at Indian Hill, BTL. This, in turn, became the base for UNIX 4.0, which > was never released externally." > > This from a supervisor at Columbus... > Oh, see also the message from Guy Harris a few messages previous to the one that opens up with the above link (minor edits by me): " doug_gwyn>The UNIX System V IPC was already present in USG UNIX 4.1. doug_gwyn>(Not related to 4.1BSD.) For you real UNIX trivia freaks, the USG 4.0 IPC was different from the USG 4.1 IPC. The original message send/receive system calls sent to a process ID; they were changed to send to message queues, which had a 32-bit unique ID, instead (which makes more sense, as it permits you to transparently replace servers). " The note is extensive and goes into a lot of other areas related to IPC and lists names and references too. In fact the whole thread is a good candidate to be hoisted from google groups while we have the chance and placed into the TUHS archive. Is there a process for that? Warner Warner > > referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt >> >> "Other treasures: Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix >> as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London) >> that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details >> of history up to about 1988." >> > --000000000000be419805e60de6fd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:06 AM Warn= er Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:=


On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:42 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrot= e:
On Fri, Aug 1= 2, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
> > I=E2=80=99m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have = established
> > that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to= optimize
> > these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did no= t appear
> > in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gathe= r that
> > it was not included there either.
>
> I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documen= ts
> did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the=
> 3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.=
>
> Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a questio= n.
>
> I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
> very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)

"Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduc= ed
new IPC mechanisms"

from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
= https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pi= rzada-1988-PhD-Thesis.pdf

But also &quo= t;Release 4.2 was launched in February 1982 for both the 3B & the DEC
machines. It contained improvements to the data communications and networking


=
"
doug_gwyn>The UNIX System V IPC was already presen= t in USG UNIX 4.1.
doug_gwyn>(Not related to 4.1BSD.)

F= or you real UNIX trivia freaks, the USG 4.0 IPC was different
from the U= SG 4.1 IPC. The original message send/receive system calls sent
to a pro= cess ID; they were changed to send to message queues, which had a
32-bit= unique ID, instead (which makes more sense, as it permits you to
transp= arently replace servers).
"

The= note is extensive and goes into a lot of other areas related to IPC and li= sts names
and references too.=C2=A0 In fact the whole thread is a= good candidate to be hoisted from
google groups while we have th= e chance and placed into the TUHS archive. Is there
a process for= that?

Warner


<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Warner

referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt

"Other treasures:=C2=A0 Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Uni= x
as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
of history up to about 1988."
--000000000000be419805e60de6fd--