[TUHS] Re: UNIX on (not quite bare) System/370

[Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>]

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On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:25 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 10:27 AM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>     > From: Bakul Shah
>>
>>     > There is a further para:
>>
>>     >  Reducing external memory fragmentation to zero by utilizing the
>> VAX-
>>     >  11/780 memory mapping hardware for scatter loading is high on the
>> list
>>     >  of things to do in the second implementation pass.
>>
>> I'm curious as to exactly what is meant by "external memory"? They must
>> mean
>> memory on the Synchronous Backplane Interconnect:
>>
>>   http://gunkies.org/wiki/Synchronous_Backplane_Interconnect
>>
>> I.e. what most of us would call 'main memory'.
>>
>> If this code didn't even allocate main memory by pages, instead of in
>> process-size blocks, it sounds like it's much like 32V (or is it 32V
>> that's
>> being discussed; I thought this thread had moved on to the Reiser demand
>> paging version - my apologies it I've gotten lost).
>>
>>
>> Also, this note:
>>
>>   http://gunkies.org/wiki/Talk:CB-UNIX
>>
>> from Dale DeJager (which he kindly gave me permission to post)
>
>
> It's quite similar to a note he posted to I think unix-wizards mailing
> list back in the late 80s. I found it for my early unix talk and it's why I
> call cbunix the first fork.
>

Looks to be comp.unix on Jan 17, 1984 in our archive
as Usenet/comp.unix/1984-January/007696.html and while it is somewhat
similar to the gunkie's talk page, it differs in a number of ways. So I
think Dale wrote these notes independently and didn't repost his earlier
effort more recently. The gunkies note says it was retired in favor of Unix
4.0, but the earlier post says it was 5.0. this is also my source for the
New Jersey Bell reference, though the above link also says that (I didn't
see this before my last message). Of note for this thread, that article
says:

>>Note that CB-UNIX was not a derivative of UNIX/RT, but
>>of Version 6 and Version 7.  PWB UNIX was also a derivative of Version 7.
>>USG UNIX was originally a derivative of Version 6 and 7 with some CB-UNIX
>>facilities added.  Eventaully a decision was made to consoldate to two
>>versions of UNIX:  UNIX/TS and UNIX/RT. RT was a derivative of MERT, and
>>TS a derivative of PWB UNIX. RT was to be used by Operations Systems, but
>>was never too widely accepted. Eventually, UNIX/TS was augmented to have
>>many of the features present in CB-UNIX (this was done by Roger Faulkner
>>at Indian Hill, BTL. This, in turn, became the base for UNIX 4.0, which
>>was never released externally. While this augmentation was going on,
UNIX/TS
>>was being changed into UNIX 3.0 which was release externally as SYSTEM
III.

which gives a few more details, but it still leaves us wanting more. PWB
1.0 was
Version 6 based (since V7 hadn't come out yet when it was released), so
maybe
it's talking about a later PWB that was V7 based?

But last time this came up, people disputed that CB-Unix never ran on
anything newer
than the 11/70...


> gives a fair
>> amount of detail on the relationship between the Research and CB/UNIX
>> versions, with a brief mention of USG - precisely the era, and
>> relationships,
>> that are so poorly documented. Interestingly, he indicates that the early
>> versions of what later became CB/UNIX used something in the V1/V3 range
>> (V4
>> was the first one in C), so it dates back earlier than most people
>> apparently
>> assume.
>>
>
> For my early unix talk, I think I pegged that at V2. Running on the 11/20
> coupled with V3 manual strongly suggesting running on 11/20 would be better
> with v1 or v2.
>
> If anyone else has any first-hand notes (i.e.from people who were there at
>> the
>> time), about the relationship between all the early systems, for which the
>> author has given permiosssion to post it, please send it to me and I will
>> add it to the appropriate article on the CHWiki
>>
>
> The source I had said it was NJ Bell that did the productization of v2 in
> 1972 or 1973 for the SCCS project. I have a memory of reading somewhere
> that Columbus took over maintenance once they deployed and out of that grew
> cbunix. I'll see if I can find that again. It matches other things I've
> read that Columbus provided support for the operating companies deploying
> unix.
>

I do wish I had pointers to more posts or notes from 'back in the day' from
the early 80s with memories still relatively fresh.

Warner


> Warner
>
> Probably the most needed is more about the roots of USG; Dale has filled in
>> CB/UNIX, and the roots of PWB are covered fairly well in the BSTJ article
>> on it:
>>
>>   https://archive.org/details/bstj57-6-2177
>>
>> at least, for PWB1. Anything that covers the later PWBs would likewise be
>> gratefully receied.
>>
>>
>> I suppose I should also write up the relationships of the later UNIXen -
>> 32V
>> and its descendants too - any material sent to me about them will be most
>> gratefully received. (If anyone want a CHWiki account, to write it up
>> themselves, please let me know).
>>
>>    Noel
>>
>

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