From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1b420766 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 18:01:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 68E37A2702; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:01:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C765293FC6; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:01:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 79BC3A26D4; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:01:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-it1-f173.google.com (mail-it1-f173.google.com [209.85.166.173]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CA0293FC6 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2018 04:01:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-it1-f173.google.com with SMTP id r12-v6so36032408ita.3 for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:01:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tUOR0CCDPRvOtQs8038JjZ0CWzw2Foad04/34LTevJo=; b=LLYekBUHi1MwJ47H05JoBZLIXS6Jvet/9mnrM+5urAGXejoVqSNLX/md+o8sDuc3O4 bHfwP8LFHEFVS9sXNwUlQFczp/9FzV1LvHDDMD/bH9Z/t+IcS1hc18WrH9ivAbUaEwMn g7dTc5NQ6mP5nrSoK2Lx/m8p4KRyqTHXO7osAUI/EZZd2WvdperJaLhDbfxwK0+k0TVK 1cgcDf5nMifw1Ny+1N4RpIXSBtY9YCNXR4r0gz40j4B9qKOlRKisUHKcmKRCmr21Gaoh 1osPtM7DZLV1ZTZeF5HOfibw/uP4AYOpIIojHYnguRS6XzcOzE8HWmJn1aJaCf8j9qjM AYgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tUOR0CCDPRvOtQs8038JjZ0CWzw2Foad04/34LTevJo=; b=fzT7t3WlumHjAV2EomOAdaHy3F/Hk8SsIPCloqermTGnvDzYbF2qRyL/XM+PQEnNYk DbABb9h94fwYsnEoV/qe8Oa4EozqcfOrBVfsza0Z/v2Q/6jFjq1XPukLlMRCfpkv+yli A+X9oUrX5xiNnd/n6D46FNGPexAQw6dKHwHk/z+He4m67Z/BURbL3lLDa2mF6+EtxqFz o0iScIhIYW7TtEl4mvdS1R9HxyW/J+KHUgDj5Qj8C7pDN0PGEwxSdTSzsFBfwhMKo9/X aEyCktlk82/Y4SaV0tcG8T91l+KESRtRy24df5JE9ML2kA0fV3hsCLc5y/40EtV8NYO5 CkZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLyhoUC0ajLtZLIdW1kL0lozFPACeGTWaUYsaMv5YDb2Jxe8fgp iDXjmWGhsNdIZgBHvAcUe12fxaWYW/33rFUmFum4Nw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5eppfVGVEVD2NdUqpvQzd1TyBBr0O5aL6Zg5Xldfn1YZwayZOgbsroZYFekn+dzMK3hYwrE2DE6R+xuOJSpDIc= X-Received: by 2002:a24:4fcb:: with SMTP id c194mr1820529itb.47.1542391270340; Fri, 16 Nov 2018 10:01:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201811160003.wAG03mlF139232@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <20181116045016.GK3341@mcvoy.com> <7a632484-cdc7-7c59-7077-7a2c752045da@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 11:00:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: Paul Winalski Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c60f01057acbf3d3" Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000c60f01057acbf3d3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 9:56 AM Paul Winalski wrote: > agree with Grant. If you want to know what a particular command > does and what its options are, man pages are fantastic. If you are a > new or casual user trying to find out what command(s) to use to > accomplish a particular task, the man pages are an exercise in > frustration and futility. Other OSes have done a better job in that > area (the VMS and DTSS HELP commands come to mind). IMO ideally one > should have both--a generalized "help" command for those trying to > find out what command to use, and "man" as reference material. UNIX > and Linux have never had a proper help facility. Or at least I never > was able to find it. > I've often wanted a 'man -v' which printed a more-verbose version of the man page, if it were available, otherwise the standard one for less-often-used commands that are a pita learn at the start, but once you learn you just want a quick refresher. Pike could then do a paper 'make -v considered harmful' :) Warner --000000000000c60f01057acbf3d3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri= , Nov 16, 2018 at 9:56 AM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0agree with Grant.=C2=A0 If you want to know what a pa= rticular command
does and what its options are, man pages are fantastic.=C2=A0 If you are a<= br> new or casual user trying to find out what command(s) to use to
accomplish a particular task, the man pages are an exercise in
frustration and futility.=C2=A0 Other OSes have done a better job in that area (the VMS and DTSS HELP commands come to mind).=C2=A0 IMO ideally one should have both--a generalized "help" command for those trying t= o
find out what command to use, and "man" as reference material.=C2= =A0 UNIX
and Linux have never had a proper help facility.=C2=A0 Or at least I never<= br> was able to find it.

I've often wan= ted a 'man -v' which printed a more-verbose version of the man page= , if it were available, otherwise the standard one for less-often-used comm= ands that are a pita learn at the start, but once you learn you just want a= quick refresher.

Pike could then do a paper '= make -v considered harmful' :)

Warner=C2=A0
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