From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9477 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2023 20:49:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 8 Feb 2023 20:49:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7152640A7A; Thu, 9 Feb 2023 06:49:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-f51.google.com (mail-ej1-f51.google.com [209.85.218.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF8E340A56 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2023 06:49:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-f51.google.com with SMTP id u22so435079ejj.10 for ; Wed, 08 Feb 2023 12:49:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=XHIYadL+NGpNbwEWM77K9uU3Eg43NIfkFalpsWxde9Q=; b=adKQbRs9YO03+oqAIJpNkEZxPJSBmWhHEkfeG5MdiEbcb51LWeLo9M1qIk75JnF2AO jIuZMQD3wiGrtZAw/WvIRMwAcPK02TmFBQhNbBXSaOISEicY9Ajbz5NDvAMlsoMloAOQ t2YHsmpfeBrl9fHkqyD4SPKIzw0A80FNdZyaX6CM7DCe2eNgP1Z4wTE91N2a+EStQ++A GyVXVJyOnKRgZgSt+0DXnUgrU5UfNhuBxMl2FJDKr3M7V9CAUO3+FRjJ52SZQkjGgD57 1FkiyKgDgQnaSGxGKgDyp+txO0Ep+8ZOHCah7CkhJpgDsEW4OynKV8skVGW3ySfaQLKm sYvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=XHIYadL+NGpNbwEWM77K9uU3Eg43NIfkFalpsWxde9Q=; b=LbweFB7ZNd2DoPIRbkDuoz63mCI0sttApteM+nboWHd1Aa06P9gPsrf4L5mqAJXbZn 6XIFKUG/0OhD2QKWye5+nq3qagUBoY24zs88G/VNW2yGvuOE8d9HbvNubQZVfAaMVo7e ok+twbtLv8GyyQbFGrz8F9LR2sGR5cFNroIvgep0SgqGY+AkqGXRsJH3dFBHTIgzFnpb tzDNTKsi2u5vlZFhKbVDs/mTZFmLb32J2z5Q6gRH/vAmDxu4q/MRI2vI+Ws2UzcNd85H 1CayXrojv8jLQVEq5FFezq1x32/s2P1Wbp93PMXOiIWRpjBkiO50zec0XQicoei7s3ym JYew== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWv+AH7V2erBBFErTCUMogD8kGXjkcqSVFmTmmsZl8MLsZhNuvx 9FRsN2TlQ4RvwjMW+BhW1/XBtZAFA8f/d65qsTawXg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/Xj/xhPSbgZxQXrksI3jcny0v/b2m8lii9ryALfyIUJtgzcQJb+2yo/z3SZ0Yjl8p+rzLDoV/vynlOsY69mJU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:2f17:b0:888:c14e:70b6 with SMTP id v23-20020a1709062f1700b00888c14e70b6mr2155728eji.306.1675889318150; Wed, 08 Feb 2023 12:48:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 13:48:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007dd8e905f4366325" Message-ID-Hash: DW57UOLS7FMW4IFVJVGDY7AJM3PPMHRY X-Message-ID-Hash: DW57UOLS7FMW4IFVJVGDY7AJM3PPMHRY X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: history of community help for unix users everywhere List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000007dd8e905f4366325 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 12:59 PM Clem Cole wrote: > For those of us outside of BTL, i.e. the Academic users, "Unix News" was > created - which became ';login" - We started to meet informally at a few > universities and talk to each other. Those of us on the ArpaNet that > email/FTP and the like, started to share patches - but mostly things were > shared when we got together via magtape. When they were held in NYC, we > might be lucky and someone from Research might come (and even accidentally > spill a few bits on the floor that mix fix something). Eventually, USENIX > was formed, and we met twice a year formally. That was so popular, USENIX > started having specialty conferences such as the one for C and C++, LISA, > Networking, Linux and Free Software, etc. Similarly, with V7, UUCP was > given to use a USENET was started by Tom Truscott and his famous > "auto-dialler" that he hacked with a 12v relay, a DR-11C and described at > the Bolder USENIX conference. Netnews was not far behind - which sadly > became net.noise when the signal-to-noise ratio disappeared. > Yea, reading both the early usenix news letters and the early AUUG newsletters carefully shows more community action as well. I'm not sure what netnews was like in the 74-79 time frame before UUCP was wisely available, so I can't comment on that, but there's reports from names you'd recognize, and reports about USENIX conferences, reports about local gatherings... and then all kinds of crazy stuff: letters on university letter head that had bug fixes in it for this or that problem... Addresses where you write and send photocopies of AT&T and DEC licenses and get FORTRAN or MARCO-11 or other such things where people had used their DEC source license to hack in unix I/O routines into the FORTRAN compiler. And there were all kinds of 'user shared' programs that ranged from 'trivial problem, poorly executed' to 'really cool DEC OS emulators' depending on the era.. The bas.s that is in V6 and V7 (V5 too?) is an early version fo DEC's BASIC that was hacked for unix and some I/O devices that were specific to the labs... there were also advice for what versions of unix to use, and what versions were available to license. References to things that you can't google for anymore (or if you do all you find is the google index of the login issues / auus issues). There's also a number of country SIGs under DECUS that were for unix in the 77 or so time frame that might be good to search newsletters for... bitsavers has a bunch, but not sure they are early enough (I didn't come across the references to them until long after I looked at what bitsavers had). The community aspect of open source was there in spades as well, with people helping other people and sharing fixes. But it was complicated by restrictive license agreements and somewhat (imho) overzealous protection of 'rights' at times that hampered things and would have echos in later open source licenses and attitudes that would develop in response. Even though the term 'open source' wasn't coined until 1998, the open source ethos were present in many of the early computer users groups, not least the unix ones. USENET amplified it, plus let in the unwashed masses who also had useful contributions (in addition to a lot of noise)... then things got really crowded with noise when AOL went live... And I'm sure there's a number of other BBS and/or compuserve communities I'm giving short-shrift here because I wasn't part of them in real time. Warner --0000000000007dd8e905f4366325 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 12:59 PM Clem = Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
For those=C2=A0of us outside= of BTL, i.e. the Academic users, "Unix News" was created - which= became ';login" - We started to meet informally at a few universi= ties and talk to=C2=A0each other.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Those of us on the ArpaNet th= at email/FTP and the like, started to share patches - but mostly things wer= e shared when we got together via magtape. When they were held in NYC, we m= ight be lucky and someone from Research might come (and even accidentally s= pill a few bits on the floor that mix fix something).=C2=A0 Eventually, USE= NIX was formed, and we met twice a year formally. That was so popular, USEN= IX started having specialty conferences such as the one for C and C++, LISA= , Networking, Linux and Free Software, etc. Similarly, with V7, UUCP was gi= ven to use a USENET was started by Tom Truscott and his famous "auto-d= ialler" that he hacked with=C2=A0a 12v relay, a DR-11C and described a= t the Bolder USENIX conference.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Netnews was not far behind - wh= ich sadly became net.noise when the signal-to-noise ratio disappeared.

=C2=A0Yea, reading both the early u= senix news letters and the early AUUG newsletters carefully shows more comm= unity action as well. I'm not sure what netnews was like in the 74-79 t= ime frame before UUCP was wisely available, so I can't comment on that,= but there's reports from names you'd recognize, and reports about = USENIX conferences, reports about local gatherings... and then all kinds of= crazy stuff: letters on university letter head that had bug fixes in it fo= r this or that problem... Addresses where you write and send photocopies of= AT&T and DEC licenses and get FORTRAN or MARCO-11 or other such things= where people had used their DEC source license to hack in unix I/O routine= s into the FORTRAN compiler. And there were all kinds of 'user shared&#= 39; programs that ranged from 'trivial problem, poorly executed' to= 'really cool DEC OS emulators' depending on the era..=C2=A0 The ba= s.s that is in V6 and V7 (V5 too?) is an early version fo DEC's=C2=A0BA= SIC that was hacked for unix and some I/O devices that were specific to the= labs... there were also advice for what versions of unix to use, and what = versions were available to license. References to things that you can't= google for anymore (or if you do all you find is the google index of the l= ogin issues / auus issues). There's also a number of country SIGs under= DECUS that were for unix in the 77 or so time frame that might be good to = search newsletters for... bitsavers has a bunch, but not sure they are earl= y enough (I didn't come across the references to them until long after = I looked at what bitsavers had).

The community asp= ect of open source was there in spades as well, with people helping other p= eople and sharing fixes. But it was complicated by restrictive license agre= ements and somewhat (imho) overzealous protection of 'rights' at ti= mes that hampered things and would have echos in later open source licenses= and attitudes that would develop in response. Even though the term 'op= en source' wasn't coined until 1998, the open source ethos were pre= sent in many of the early computer users groups, not least the unix ones. U= SENET amplified it, plus let in the unwashed masses who also had useful con= tributions (in addition to a lot of noise)... then things got really crowde= d with noise when AOL went live... And I'm sure there's a number of= other BBS and/or compuserve communities I'm giving short-shrift here b= ecause I wasn't part of them in real time.

War= ner
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