From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1141 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2023 17:38:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 27 Jan 2023 17:38:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8571642559; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 03:37:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ej1-f41.google.com (mail-ej1-f41.google.com [209.85.218.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A18342558 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2023 03:37:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ej1-f41.google.com with SMTP id v6so15678819ejg.6 for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:37:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=uEkdJi56i94D2O8iv+ht+TSWM2NSjyD5NL1AhppfzUI=; b=GW1TKknufNpl3+xXvU8WGjSzhUy4iZEkIwgIHYk+9WuZYheCmYiYV+UsKqb7XqZAWc +eW7SNsZRoy2+hWW4oyq9emlBS//WOTLT11BDi/SR/SYIKQQPn31HLymmiN6OUyOo/Eh lJ6aDLk2ci5MxXRVtGg1AKLMkgye4DvnlCtvuY3peO8aIwNs7EGVs1d7vjBtRrvh1nGA uxnIW/0lNpHe0M7NHqu1RmEkyIcLsC6V6lsEuqKzo6oDIpvYdUNushOquP2sLzM2Ye/Q a3zqcTGog9Jz5bpFMXgKH/RnsAPxiA15Md+Ri/wgJthtlaNH/VXN4OEVfeWzOR4GXWcj QNWw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=uEkdJi56i94D2O8iv+ht+TSWM2NSjyD5NL1AhppfzUI=; b=aWjD7dago9SnnF3+4/VVFI7JdO9+nl03DLkJX1SQ6T6F0tE1W5gMJSZdAu0H/TuGPO m/UpI532BBaxRmrVVlXRf42qQpnpzpaOudm+/OkeycqtOGuVWK6vAMEzdbKwM8C8KpyC 00jBuN8xP4S+o7ZnH0Vvg8pJustyIwTV6gQvNmfCsbjkpwPPBBvWy+ZVLwRlFPh0Kzja Ns2LMh/Z5HWMeyBcPfuopXzMdIjoopuHHKkgwtcgxir5kYIfxgzEJJBzf9ATbN9gwcUE 6JtUjpsl2L7q4OYUPxdAhQvkZv957pBhImOaL339uDd1Y3YHEu/cKkARDWZP25uc6uyT Lgrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpNzQTkblZtUrdB3GPTU277MxESSQqjQeKir7jkdoalzL+BT6rB Bqk+g30yV9m5hcB/sfBzFKHfwfmtZV6xBkmv4yp/7s+ptUhKHGDX X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXtRSE6KXLI78Ge05JKu4uZobgRxaEwzSnK0bo8B5VpZxqgZXKDFD9IU5eoXf31oVS3uc+WmnXGeChMfRQFQ9rY= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:a2c6:b0:85f:2781:508a with SMTP id re6-20020a170907a2c600b0085f2781508amr6514214ejc.36.1674840997479; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 09:36:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0C5D8AF8-BAB2-48B5-854B-34E3A949DE50@planet.nl> <0778FF74-7DF5-4072-95F3-5FF5BEB4CC33@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:36:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b5da7d05f3424e51" Message-ID-Hash: LCHN3XYA4ZFYMCT423TBSWQTBQLA7PSL X-Message-ID-Hash: LCHN3XYA4ZFYMCT423TBSWQTBQLA7PSL X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Earliest UNIX Workstations? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000b5da7d05f3424e51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 10:16 AM Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote: > > On Jan 27, 2023, at 1:19 AM, Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > > The version of X discussed in the paper was apparently part of the 4.3BSD > distribution tapes: > > "The use of X has grown far beyond anything we had imagined. Digital has > incorporated X into a commercial product, and other manufacturers are > following suit. With the appearance of such products and the release of > complete X sources on the Berkeley 4.3 UNIX distribution tapes, it is no > longer feasible to track all X use and development.=E2=80=9D > > > This X is not on the TUHS Unix tree website, nor on the CSRG disks. It > turns out that there is a directory =E2=80=9Csrc/new=E2=80=9D that is not= included there. > It is here: > > http://www.retro11.de/ouxr/43bsd/usr/src/new/ > > The version of X included with 4.3BSD was X10. I assume this is the oldes= t > surviving X Window source code. > There's X10R3 and X10R4 at https://www.x.org/archive/X10R3/ and https://www.x.org/archive/X10R4/. On the FTP site, there's sym links for R1, R2, R3, R4, R5, R6, R6.1, R6.3, R6.4, R6.5.1, R6.6 and R6.8 in the pub directory as well, but they are dead links and correspond to the X11 releases that are also there, not X1, etc. The X10R3 is from Feb 2, 1986. X10R4 is from December 2, 1986. The retro11.de files are from June 1986, so are no later than X10R4, and most likely either X10R3 or an internal snapshot (I've not downloaded them both to run a diff to see which). Google searches for X9, X8, etc aren't at all helpful. Of course the source code for the Blit has survived, as has the source code > of MGR. The source code for Sunwindows and NeWS is presumably lost? > When I was a Solbroune, we started the OI toolkit with pdb, swm, uib, etc because Sun refused to license the source code to SunView. Although I had easy access to SunOS (which I wish I'd saved a copy of now), the SunView code was never in the building. It was relatively easy to get SunOS sources for a fee, but much harder for SunView. So I'm less than completely hopeful here. And NeWS was a fringe thing with a significantly shorter product life, so I'm even less hopeful there. Warner --000000000000b5da7d05f3424e51 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 10:16 AM Paul= Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org= > wrote:

On Jan 27, 2023, at 1:19 AM, Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:
The version of X discussed in the paper was apparently part of the 4.3BSD = distribution tapes:

"The use of X has grown far beyond anything= we had imagined. Digital has incorporated X into a commercial product, and= other manufacturers are following suit. With the appearance of such produc= ts and the release of complete X sources on the Berkeley 4.3 UNIX distribut= ion tapes, it is no longer feasible to track all X use and development.=E2= =80=9D


This X is not on the = TUHS Unix tree website, nor on the CSRG disks. It turns out that there is a= directory =E2=80=9Csrc/new=E2=80=9D that is not included there. It is here= :



There's X10R3 and X10R4 at=C2=A0https://www.x.org/archive/X10R3/ and= =C2=A0https://www.x.org/archiv= e/X10R4/. On the FTP site, there's sym links for R1, R2, R3, R4, R5= , R6, R6.1, R6.3, R6.4, R6.5.1, R6.6 and R6.8 in the pub directory as well,= but they are dead links and correspond to the X11 releases that are also t= here, not X1, etc.

The X10R3 is from Feb 2, 1986. = X10R4 is from December 2, 1986. The retro11.d= e files are from June 1986, so
are no later than X10R4, and m= ost likely either X10R3 or an internal snapshot (I've not downloaded th= em both
to run a diff to see which).

Goo= gle searches for X9, X8, etc aren't at all helpful.

Of course the source code for the Blit has survived,= as has the source code of MGR. The source code for Sunwindows and NeWS is = presumably lost?

When I was a S= olbroune, we started the OI toolkit with pdb, swm, uib, etc because Sun ref= used to license the source code to SunView. Although I had easy access to S= unOS (which I wish I'd saved a copy of now), the SunView code was never= in the building. It was relatively easy to get SunOS sources for a fee, bu= t much harder for SunView. So I'm less than completely hopeful here. An= d NeWS was a fringe thing with a significantly shorter product life, so I&#= 39;m even less hopeful there.

Warner
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