From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6324a86e for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 19:37:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4A944A1F06; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 05:37:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE57AA1F02; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 05:37:20 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0B370A1F02; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 05:37:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com (mail-qt1-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F524A1F00 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 05:37:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id n32so3324735qte.11 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:37:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NUaR8FNtXWPMUpaPDIwY8PxQ8mGwar9YxDV9rq0sDiM=; b=WqZLRAR7ANZLzuuiKEaRy+02xFWkYF+JCfN0hI7dBlPGrRDu+zMeT9sLqfTh0BUTm4 Ipq0fGYMPtPHjkZ5L5cC3f43Bc/pk0/hRPqi3H+jA7gZuPdpdIlZ6c6EWe0rvIBa/1dx kyCcmZV8s5L9o0EIj/ztg1Om980k+Pw7HB2JRTBSAbrfSvG0LUvt+LMqbPrHwCq83sgm ZWDwNTtX2m6LBRiKo3GV97zUEtX1d7USewFN+qqaOubhJly49un2U2zk7tS+mLZ8Wa7w 6Yxc/4SoRVx+nNzbHvSwwVbgdh/Q9Caf9o6GytBOd3+yxdG6HSudlO93NjJzu0+MYm0j PURg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NUaR8FNtXWPMUpaPDIwY8PxQ8mGwar9YxDV9rq0sDiM=; b=Efc/8XSZ8quBAvPbZYtl6TBX5+528TiE3MYqOcM9c6ouU/WxjIO608kfrOq1y8Ek9f cKz3wz80lEdBg/4nA9r/lf90Zmp/NCg46zE01qNaiGX6UivTj/BwuMH9a9TGxksZHjPY 5V+3CkzeYevR2Cadiq+yt8UR5+eLeoIonJaJXbQgObOCzQ8jz/+/P4TNY6Vcf7xVPUuc CyawDy2NwKtxrtErA8EEIVYiGo7XWnJudG0RJEl3VwNZb45lMRkESdStoMaB7NZESsbD NFURIkw6x6wcS5KMtvZS3BZIUZtRWffrWXWbUgIKB9yED5bd0lE/n1SpsGfHN3DAbs8k 3Vww== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWa8yC1NHuCKmdPRlxDRluST1Su3czS9+rtd35y813q8jwLMy+Yv A12fNuHKR2DRBwGuZvmmsh0VWLIG6AXw3ElU9h8dfw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WS3l+tCYNTuROfFWNjWdD+5Y4EsPTlg/yp9ujo69O1WcX5BgyxlKo5wBzkeCG1GfJOXsP4rufZryE01402pW0= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9549:: with SMTP id m9mr2782968qvm.214.1543520228593; Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:37:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7a632484-cdc7-7c59-7077-7a2c752045da@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <4c36b2b2-76df-435f-27bc-e1feb0647f36@case.edu> <201811162113.wAGLDGiQ031455@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <201811191648.wAJGmqGd005247@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20181129184845.GB18414@mcvoy.com> <76bb3c3a-7717-caf8-c8ac-8afea3bf5bc4@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <09bb6a45-f01f-5889-ea1e-40e36ffe6f26@case.edu> In-Reply-To: <09bb6a45-f01f-5889-ea1e-40e36ffe6f26@case.edu> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2018 12:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Chet Ramey Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ede67c057bd2cef3" Subject: Re: [TUHS] man-page style X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000ede67c057bd2cef3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:33 PM Chet Ramey wrote: > On 11/29/18 11:13 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote: > > On 11/29/2018 11:48 AM, Larry McVoy wrote: > >> Indeed. Sendmail got a lot of hate but mostly from people in pure > >> user@host.domain worlds. > > > > Do you have any idea why the user@host.domain community hated on > Sendmail > > more than other communities? > > They didn't need its flexibility, so they had all kinds of bones to pick > with the architecture. > The problem we had at the university was that it got things almost right. Almost. And to track down WTF the macros were doing that caused the almost was, well, almost impossible due to the twisty, turny nature of the implementation that made the twists in colossal cave look sane and predictable. Without extreme tweaking, it wouldn't handle foo!bar!bas%bitnet@grubkle.edu correctly... Mostly because it was ambiguous and the definition of correct changed as we went from being a UUCP leaf node to being a full denizen of the internet on NSFNET. Warner --000000000000ede67c057bd2cef3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu= , Nov 29, 2018 at 12:33 PM Chet Ramey <chet.ramey@case.edu> wrote:
On 11/29/18 11:13 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
> On 11/29/2018 11:48 AM, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> Indeed.=C2=A0 Sendmail got a lot of hate but mostly from people in= pure
>> user@host.domain worlds.
>
> Do you have any idea why the user@host.domain community hated on Sendm= ail
> more than other communities?

They didn't need its flexibility, so they had all kinds of bones to pic= k
with the architecture.

The problem we h= ad at the university was that it got things almost right. Almost. And to tr= ack down WTF the macros were doing that caused the almost was, well, almost= impossible due to the twisty, turny nature of the implementation that made= the twists in colossal cave=C2=A0 look sane and predictable.
Without extreme tweaking, it wouldn't handle foo!bar!bas%bitnet@grubkle.edu correctly.= ..=C2=A0 Mostly because it was ambiguous and the definition of correct chan= ged as we went from being a UUCP leaf node to being a full denizen of the i= nternet on NSFNET.

Warner
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