From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6472 invoked from network); 19 May 2021 22:37:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 May 2021 22:37:15 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B5CAD93DAD; Thu, 20 May 2021 08:37:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B433293D35; Thu, 20 May 2021 08:36:30 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="xpA0339z"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AE88393D35; Thu, 20 May 2021 08:36:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f42.google.com (mail-qv1-f42.google.com [209.85.219.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C072693D2D for ; Thu, 20 May 2021 08:36:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f42.google.com with SMTP id c13so6512967qvx.5 for ; Wed, 19 May 2021 15:36:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Xuu7HiVPDke6hOIYuDr8t3y4zo3qknSx3z7Up4gKwqA=; b=xpA0339zDf4c836Uhbu+4KMaX7FGZ8EJufbK68f5w2gNdapI66xHrjOvWhQCoB1kjp ZcDqNxw4PtJuxQrRV+oB5OwJnT0JbK+3mI/N0t1aQ4DZUD9HsOZjon1JF8EMztyib9E7 x8klIyzlz0Pu7p6XsyHA4NGjUYa6lzgnBdS1Tqs2dJ3+5hXIyxuPBv9V7LJdjrc/mSri OIQ8RpbO9S1plMrdAdO7ejGzmIBToy3G+pWdVrU7UlYgjvAwV+LsZKMEdQp2s242jS2w XUnymxDvEoiYNxcjrMmP3aBJOQRPvLiS0Asw7WmAWXrVXV/xclol6Q/r14HDhqglsd8g qsRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Xuu7HiVPDke6hOIYuDr8t3y4zo3qknSx3z7Up4gKwqA=; b=E2UeJxLKXZBuCv3KB8bVir8pwy/TIfhlPgfM0GPW0CHrL6hIIjQZH+CiJNyjhJu7Qy 3LYUqjatByqPngRU/MgndQEysnGg7waw9q057OyvxjI8ocbZd6LalEg8AzokqOzgwrtH 0y68Ftu5czZuoy9Nfc0pBPIVuNXxozmPzMWQA3wJOWFjtOR5y+juagq1sKbS2YNsp5zW 3Gp/JOlDFG7wvOznBO3vNdxSOpCDPFvvfg7OVVpJI0ZgXJUG9DH+/eu7tMfItSExbPpf Si3VxZ0vPaTLHHeaxNPWdM5wIlihIhdQNtfti3xUjNJ+IElE4dx4tFRI/wClTu8KZI+e 1RVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533rJaWU/hWBCOb0J02v32/e1YfNjlVB7cH4IuRgBuFh82z7BpaD iQn87oY80vFiu58iM4LEu+XAWb577D6nQqm65r186w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwLuFGIzQgbgPDtIxTEA2c5OSNVB7glO9N9xw038o4kpYLflb3hbw7ChXZ0p8B9H78pzfzwQCxMgs4c3e09+K4= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:42b3:: with SMTP id e19mr2116389qvr.62.1621463785765; Wed, 19 May 2021 15:36:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200516013930.GG1670@eureka.lemis.com> <2d3a0a5a-bd46-4a8d-bf1d-8f95f949a316@PU1APC01FT027.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <2d3a0a5a-bd46-4a8d-bf1d-8f95f949a316@PU1APC01FT027.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 16:36:14 -0600 Message-ID: To: Jason Stevens Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f7910905c2b674a5" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Status of Net/2 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000f7910905c2b674a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 7:33 PM Jason Stevens < jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote: > Nobody ever said peep when I =E2=80=98mashed=E2=80=99 enough 386BSD and w= hat was available > from NetBSD 0.9 and the NetBSD 0.8 to make 0.8 work=E2=80=A6 The closest= I got is > =E2=80=98why do you want that we have version 17!=E2=80=99 or whatever $H= EAD is . I guess > in the same way I was more interested in preserving 386BSD 0.0, and again > nobody ever told me to stop. > > > > I guess in the same way nobody told me to stop making Mach 2.6 available, > or even Darwin 0.3 for i386. > > > > I wanted to take that IBM 4.4BSD and try to replace enough of 386BSD 0.1 > pl32 to have something more akin to =E2=80=98real=E2=80=99 4.4 BSD. Alth= ough I have a > bunch of things I need to wrap up before I take that on (people are > actually looking for bug fixes for Quake II on MS-DOS of all things=E2=80= =A6.). > > > > I don=E2=80=99t think its exactly policed like 1984, although I think peo= ple are > more excited about RIAA/MPAA than things like Unix. > Part of the problem too isn't so much who owns the copyrights, but whether or not the copyrights for the V7 and earlier actually exist and are valid. One of the reasons the BSD suit was settled was at the time the judge strongly telegraphed that there wasn't a valid copyright by western union based on the copyright law at its time of creation.... So even the question of who owns the unix copyright might not be as simple as all that... The stuff is so old, there's no money in removing any of the ambiguity for the current copyright holders (to the extent that it is valid), so we're left with a lot of possibility, but no certainty. Though given the Supreme Court's latest 'fair use' rulings, it wouldn't surprise me if were it to wind up in court if that didn't further weaken the answer to the point where it just doesn't matter what the underlying details are, copying and making a derived work would be OK. Though that's my own layman's best guess... Warner > (shrug) > > > > > > *From: *Greg 'groggy' Lehey > *Sent: *Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:41 AM > *To: *Warner Losh > *Cc: *The Eunuchs Hysterical Society > *Subject: *Re: [TUHS] Status of Net/2 > > > > On Friday, 15 May 2020 at 18:49:44 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > What's the current status of net/2? > > > > > > I ask because I have a FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 CVS repo that I'd like to make > > > available. Some of the files in it are encumbered, though, and the > > > University of California has communicated that fact. But what does > > that > > > actually mean now that V7 has been released and that's what the files > > were > > > based on? Are they no longer encumbered? > > > > To the best of my knowledge, Net/2 would be covered by the license > > granted by Caldera on 23 January 2002: > > > > Caldera International, Inc. hereby grants a fee free license that > > includes the rights use, modify and distribute this named source > > code, including creating derived binary products created from the > > source code. The source code for which Caldera International, > > Inc. grants rights are limited to the following UNIX Operating > > Systems that operate on the 16-Bit PDP-11 CPU and early versions of > > the 32-Bit UNIX Operating System, with specific exclusion of UNIX > > System III and UNIX System V and successor operating systems: > > > > 32-bit 32V UNIX > > 16 bit UNIX Versions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 > > > > I'm attaching the PDF of the license agreement, along with an email > > from Dion Johnson to wkt (misspelt as wht) the following day. > > > > It doesn't specifically address any particular operating system, but > > it was my understanding that this would free all BSD versions. > > > > Greg > > -- > > Sent from my desktop computer. > > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key. > > See complete headers for address and phone numbers. > > This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program > > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA > > > > > --000000000000f7910905c2b674a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 7:33 PM Jason= Stevens <jsteve@super= globalmegacorp.com> wrote:

Nobody ever said peep when I =E2= =80=98mashed=E2=80=99 enough 386BSD and what was available from NetBSD 0.9 = and the NetBSD 0.8 to make 0.8 work=E2=80=A6=C2=A0 The closest I got is =E2= =80=98why do you want that we have version 17!=E2=80=99 or whatever $HEAD i= s .=C2=A0 I guess in the same way I was more interested in preserving 386BS= D 0.0, and again nobody ever told me to stop.

= =C2=A0

I guess in the same way nobody = told me to stop making Mach 2.6 available, or even Darwin 0.3 for i386.<= /u>

=C2=A0

I wanted to take that IBM 4.4BSD and try to replace enough of 386B= SD 0.1 pl32 to have something more akin to =E2=80=98real=E2=80=99 4.4 BSD.= =C2=A0 Although I have a bunch of things I need to wrap up before I take th= at on (people are actually looking for bug fixes for Quake II on MS-DOS of = all things=E2=80=A6.).

=C2= =A0

I don=E2=80=99t think its exactly poli= ced like 1984, although I think people are more excited about RIAA/MPAA tha= n things like Unix.


Part of= the problem too isn't so much who owns the copyrights, but whether or = not the copyrights for the
V7 and earlier actually exist and are = valid. One of the reasons the BSD suit was settled was at the time
the judge strongly telegraphed that there wasn't a valid copyright by= western union based on the copyright
law at its time of creation= .... So even the question of who owns the unix copyright might not be as si= mple
as all that... The stuff is so old, there's no money in = removing any of the ambiguity for the current copyright
holders (= to the extent that it is valid), so we're left with a lot of possibilit= y, but no certainty. Though given the
Supreme Court's latest = 'fair use' rulings, it wouldn't surprise me if were it to wind = up in court if that didn't
further weaken the answer to the p= oint where it just doesn't matter what the underlying details are, copy= ing
and making a derived work would be OK. Though that's my o= wn layman's best guess...

Warner
=C2=A0

(shrug)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020= 9:41 AM
To: = Warner Losh
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Stat= us of Net/2

=C2=A0

On Friday, 15 May 2020 at 18:49:44 -0600, Warner Losh wrote= :

> What's the current status of net/2?

>=C2=A0

= > I ask because I have a FreeBSD 1.1.5.1 CVS repo that I'd like to m= ake

> available. Some of the files in it are e= ncumbered, though, and the

> University of Cal= ifornia has communicated that fact. But what does

that

> actually mean now that V7 has been rel= eased and that's what the files

were

> based on? Are they no longer encumbered?

=C2=A0

To the best o= f my knowledge, Net/2 would be covered by the license

granted by Caldera on 23 January 2002:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 Caldera International, Inc= . hereby grants a fee free license that

=C2=A0 in= cludes the rights use, modify and distribute this named source

=C2=A0 code, including creating derived binary products crea= ted from the

=C2=A0 source code. The source code = for which Caldera International,

=C2=A0 Inc. gran= ts rights are limited to the following UNIX Operating

=C2=A0 Systems that operate on the 16-Bit PDP-11 CPU and early version= s of

=C2=A0 the 32-Bit UNIX Operating System, wit= h specific exclusion of UNIX

=C2=A0 System III an= d UNIX System V and successor operating systems:

= =C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 32-= bit 32V UNIX

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 bit UNIX= Versions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

=C2=A0

I'm attaching the PDF of the license agreem= ent, along with an email

from Dion Johnson to wkt= (misspelt as wht) the following day.

=C2= =A0

It doesn't specifically address an= y particular operating system, but

it was my unde= rstanding that this would free all BSD versions.

= =C2=A0

Greg

--

Sent from my desktop computer.

Finger g= rog@lemis.com for PGP public key.

See complet= e headers for address and phone numbers.

This mes= sage is digitally signed.=C2=A0 If your Microsoft mail program

reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA

=C2=A0

=C2=A0<= /u>

--000000000000f7910905c2b674a5--