From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3196 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2022 22:20:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Jun 2022 22:20:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F048421C5; Sat, 4 Jun 2022 08:20:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa31.google.com (mail-vk1-xa31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a31]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41946421C4 for ; Sat, 4 Jun 2022 08:19:57 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa31.google.com with SMTP id d2so2832503vkg.5 for ; Fri, 03 Jun 2022 15:19:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LlliCBKjSgUQb5IVpkl5Igzzh2l+cVOcrlin1be2EFA=; b=Rg0Bp/Wpsizvcipd2Io1LDchwAK0S1iezSMVjDKP0ajGoeRTPkQIz0TUjnEcEtH3SU 77N3M/9itALkJTkInacofANulG13h8BTpFUgSKU9xuFE6xdnLYHbtG28Pj4a3OkVTZub sbRPj2y4IW1F4VlAROt04FEv8ASMuEK6Dj8JDuoV6PI0TfWqHfzIHmaK9ctIWGDl62xp lVQb/XghNZL8D3ehKGRX9EECi/xETzjlQYZuyRuJm0Nkw+Y8x/EsMBGZetmZW+OV3T5j MJMjvFTXf++jO89UwIgdXikDN+qArQ8hojyq4+KXL/UgrHz/eSWvW+vz9c7iYnS/rnhd ZI+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LlliCBKjSgUQb5IVpkl5Igzzh2l+cVOcrlin1be2EFA=; b=Sb3Gn/YS6rD/ncQhCeixAmTe4Ktf8GOJBnFAfIDK9R8f+U9dBlcEMEERMOJ1FQHlbB iorcNJEtjKWx76y5L957pz7fSDfoDX7BEhc99wsA6btN6zLC+WqHMoM25mZkmFJM4Etx WhlJTBJZKHQ8Vxw7Qn8bPUdA7mGVnkb7Lt9HVk/7xnqrtRmNPrJtVNrmxlKoHzemUsB7 7kfz+HM/yaHbtQJc6gMjNuhsJC5dDEQ0YWkKztiaIRzJnQrm77cZlX/8eVoy2RvbzMbf cSEjQ3rwnAfB6LUvdjnHdI5yuN5Lr6bK1SRGA0ZMsFGZtb2EEaxuBatTMgyVyKsM/y1l AK3w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5322u46gRRnnWQAwSoShgxf6A7q2hULgRoEQyZqk89rE5QoZmVy7 5wzr8FtI4OZtLpNqfq96Lgnd5PFwwS9jnC/VkAeAhZYjqgw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyBiwqSTQh5qTwTafUqODp/yQw5+RJ6C7piPqj1T6yaKqDaY5TuNCUcYlklc5W9Mb4H0xrH2/AGo3azyxYPYIA= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:a0d5:0:b0:35d:9c63:bba with SMTP id j204-20020a1fa0d5000000b0035d9c630bbamr1100953vke.33.1654294796101; Fri, 03 Jun 2022 15:19:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220603202330.f4spdxyn34uiyy5v@illithid> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2022 16:19:45 -0600 Message-ID: To: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad01c705e0928513" Message-ID-Hash: O62UJNGCXLPOQXPDPDOCXOKDEVLVMAZ2 X-Message-ID-Hash: O62UJNGCXLPOQXPDPDOCXOKDEVLVMAZ2 X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000ad01c705e0928513 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 3:21 PM Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS wrote: > Clem Cole writes: > > > Some of us on this list remember the original BDSi fight, the 386BSD > > to FreeBSD, then NetBSD and OpenBSD (I was friends with both sides of > > many of these wars). > > Irrelevant to the topic, I know, but I'd just like to point out, since > you call these things "wars", that NetBSD grew out of 386bsd in a quiet, > friendly fashion, and then FreeBSD out of NetBSD just as quietly. (BSDi > growing out of 386bsd was a completely separate affair that I know very > little about, and the OpenBSD fork from NetBSD was mostly just a > personal animosity thing, Theo de Raadt having made enemies in both the > NetBSD and FreeBSD camps -- but it has left no bad blood behind it.) > My recollection was that FreeBSD grew out of the patch kits in parallel to NetBSD growing out of the patch kits, but with the CVS repos hosted on the same host before each project got their own hosting... The CVS history shows FreeBSD started with NET/2 and then added in the patchkit changes added to it. I know that the family tree file says otherwise, but I've not seen convincing evidence that is really how things happened (either as an outsider observing at the time, nor via extant artifacts that would show such a relationship). NetBSD did ship their first release before FreeBSD, however. My recollection from the time of the collegiality of the split differs somewhat from yours, however. > In other words, no wars that I know of. > There were a number of shenanigans (like moving the license text to the end of files) at the time. And you never got a call at 4am from Theo demanding that you stop a FreeBSD user from saying bad things about OpenBSD... So maybe not "wars," as such, but it wasn't all sweetness and light... > That being said, I sincerely wish you all the best working out a > solution that can allow the amazingly good simh project to continue! > Yes. This looks nothing at all like the early BSD days. this looks to be a proactive attempt to take the sprawling number of forks that have happened and bring some order to it so that they don't proliferate too much. As a long-time open source governance wonk in the FreeBSD project, I like what I see. Warner > -tih > -- > Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significance > of Lisp. Lisp is the most important idea in computer science. --Alan Kay > --000000000000ad01c705e0928513 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 3:21 PM Tom Iv= ar Helbekkmo via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
Cle= m Cole <clemc@ccc.com= > writes:

> Some of us on this list remember the original BDSi fight, the 386BSD > to FreeBSD, then NetBSD and OpenBSD (I was friends with both sides of<= br> > many of these wars).

Irrelevant to the topic, I know, but I'd just like to point out, since<= br> you call these things "wars", that NetBSD grew out of 386bsd in a= quiet,
friendly fashion, and then FreeBSD out of NetBSD just as quietly.=C2=A0 (BS= Di
growing out of 386bsd was a completely separate affair that I know very
little about, and the OpenBSD fork from NetBSD was mostly just a
personal animosity thing, Theo de Raadt having made enemies in both the
NetBSD and FreeBSD camps -- but it has left no bad blood behind it.)

My recollection was that FreeBSD grew out of = the patch kits in parallel to NetBSD
growing out of the patch kit= s, but with the CVS repos hosted on the same host
before each pro= ject got their own hosting...=C2=A0 The CVS history shows FreeBSD
started with NET/2 and then added in the patchkit changes added to it. I k= now that
the family tree file says otherwise, but I've not se= en convincing evidence that is
really how things happened (either= as an outsider observing at the time, nor
via extant artifacts t= hat would show such a relationship). NetBSD did ship their
first = release before FreeBSD, however.

My recollection f= rom the time of the collegiality of the split differs somewhat
fr= om yours, however.
=C2=A0
In other words, no wars that I know of.

There were a number of shenanigans=C2=A0(like moving the license text to t= he
end of files) at the time. And you never got a call at 4am fro= m Theo demanding
that you stop a FreeBSD user from saying bad thi= ngs about OpenBSD... So maybe
not "wars," as such, but = it wasn't all sweetness and light...
=C2=A0
That being said, I sincerely wish you all the best working out a
solution that can allow the amazingly good simh project to continue!

Yes. This looks nothing at all like the early= BSD days. this looks to be a proactive
attempt to take the spraw= ling number of forks that have happened and bring some
order to i= t so that they don't proliferate too much. As a long-time open source
governance wonk in the FreeBSD project, I like what I see.

Warner
=C2=A0
-tih
--
Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significa= nce
of Lisp.=C2=A0 Lisp is the most important idea in computer science.=C2=A0 -= -Alan Kay
--000000000000ad01c705e0928513--