From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 30fd5467 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 16:48:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4651D94F26; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 02:48:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916D89489C; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 02:48:31 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="L1OVvTbd"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 553349489C; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 02:48:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f176.google.com (mail-qt1-f176.google.com [209.85.160.176]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9692C9480A for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2019 02:48:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f176.google.com with SMTP id l9so4985930qtu.6 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:48:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=U3rB2zoYWTjIUOP7FriXtjV9xP49dm4zb3g+WqLUJJ8=; b=L1OVvTbdKu8opwT3rLKc1you9c3WO8CDSBrc87yIEyPBcDIrr7uy9sPpDHovSRZzTo bL3RizHWkNXWmr3ZjFL6ZIa7tDent8CcO1GjU/aUzrShPiymKIVktVU3gznZjy+nEBxG AtNOVVu2iH6K/MAwXBUF5IlykofHbuz6Hp/QScAiQ88h3v4bkaqi8OcFSQIhvtZhq5SE GHYRj17kDWVdTJRuOm/Cb0dfcj7X09c7AU+PQroWIWvgp2IQQ0HLA7axsOEUrf/xHLOc r/BlEyGetxenBkC5N8kUdgVxFWLhj86SK0RFFnUYJRK6mx/mraT/EWC2WvIC/J2KZqkv qRpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U3rB2zoYWTjIUOP7FriXtjV9xP49dm4zb3g+WqLUJJ8=; b=aakBoDie6YoUX/jP/xC3AnH8DP1ayqtEdftD23FhHAn/BupEcVBLXFsQ/hqk81YcM6 onN2ZSw4ioIz0bm1ARuUi0/zuNd3C6F4V5Z9SgiPccT5nsOn/l2uBtzPDLH4aOcvNl5Y aAQjdikBJTzBxcGD+5s4M8ONFVJShRbkYS+gjx1vN0YZ8lfhoPvWJ/wbtPUcLhHY74Ia Cz3MMxGk6HLki0zKt22pJQuBkRECsJWFAGmQKwqGwZbDH05bez7xlxtiHXvT/iCvwfo1 HJgeKMh2wIYOPmnazUFYdGnkqI6DcQOcke7KjRe8v3/5QfsmFNxkFkjxz3JKrK7T1VOF HHdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVanLLYUfOZTqTkbZpV+JZ43twK35xtewsjaaEx8iB5iQLESBAk hicWX8/k2TMtZ7syNRtaIy3EFU6WMt525J0Cwbw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzSgEpjnGWkFxlcy3uCQUkQvfi5EDyp8JiLvUbZxRT5u4i74LdsciV0Z7agchME64ORCie8a05EKSl4Slg2P0A= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:2baa:: with SMTP id m39mr2663991qtm.242.1562863707512; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:48:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8235a090-c48a-4587-8974-23305233bc33@PU1APC01FT026.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> <3CFC8159-08DD-4647-8CEF-FE8D196AB3C9@ccc.com> <610F6FCB-F24D-4788-953A-83E0E6456622@ccc.com> In-Reply-To: <610F6FCB-F24D-4788-953A-83E0E6456622@ccc.com> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:48:16 -0600 Message-ID: To: Clem cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e73fa058d6a904c" Subject: Re: [TUHS] PCC for the i386 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000001e73fa058d6a904c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:31 AM Clem cole wrote: > By the time of 4.2 the switch from the Ritchie and Johnson compilers at > UCB had begun. Remember the primary output of Rms at that point was emac= s > and gcc. > > CSRG wanted the different backends for C. ThAts it. Besides the vax, > Rms had done 68000 and 386 back ends then. > > With the original system V, all of AT&T, Intel and IBM paid Interactive > Systems Corp (aka ISC) to port the System V/Vax code to a 386 ps/2 and an > Intel reference system that used an ISA bus. This would be eventually > released in source at the 386 port from AT&T. As part of the contract > summit supplied the compiler > > I know the AT&T assembler with it=E2=80=99s backwards syntax from Intel w= as done > before rms did his. He was compatible with the summit assembler. I don= =E2=80=99t > remember who=E2=80=99s 386 backend came out first. I think is was the su= mmit > compiler but you needed a system v license which UCB did not have. > There's also a fair amount of work at MIT to do Intel code generation for 8086 (small mode) that was extended by Queens College London (I think, I gotta grab the tapes again) to do large mode. I've run into this looking for a compiler for the Venix source restoration project I've been tilting at. I found those based on a cryptic comment I found somewhere online about the tech behind Venix that wasn't from AT&T. I don't know if ISC started with them as a base or not, nor really how the MIT compilers came about, but they claim to be PCC based somehow. Don't know if this helps you on your quest... BTW, I found these when I found the latest pcc-restoration sources didn't have a working i86 backend anymore (there was once one for Minux, but when I built it I couldn't get it to generate sensible code at all). Warner > Clem > > Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not > quite. > > On Jul 11, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Jason Stevens > wrote: > > That would make sense. I was able to find some info on PCC2 here > > http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/unix-before-berkeley/ > > I'm guessing along with the adoption of emacs the csrg must have been > further gnu synergy... Or maybe PCC2 just wasn't available outside of th= e > labs? > > Or maybe by '88 gcc was already usurping many of the c compilers of the > era. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0800, "Clem cole" wrote= : > > I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the >> PCC2 work. >> >> Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not >> quite. >> >> On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:53 AM, Jason Stevens < >> jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote: >> >> Does anyone know where the 386 port from PCC came from? >> >> >> >> While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i386, it seems that >> everything was built with GCC=E2=80=A6 >> >> Was there a PCC for the i386 around =E2=80=9988-90? It seems after the = rapid >> demise of the Tahoe/Harris >> >> HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC? >> >> >> >> Also anyone know any good test software for LIBC? I=E2=80=99ve been tra= cing >> through some >> >> strange issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some >> bits from >> >> Reno to get diropen to actually work. I would imagine there ought to >> have been some >> >> platform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instead >> of say >> >> building as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make >> sure >> >> its stable enough. >> >> --0000000000001e73fa058d6a904c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:31 AM Clem= cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
=
B= y the time of 4.2 the switch from the =C2=A0Ritchie and Johnson compilers a= t UCB had begun.=C2=A0 Remember the primary output of Rms at that point was= emacs and gcc. =C2=A0 =C2=A0

CSRG wanted the different = backends for C. =C2=A0 ThAts it.=C2=A0 Besides the vax, Rms had done 68000 = and 386 back ends then. =C2=A0

With the original s= ystem V, all of AT&T, Intel and IBM paid Interactive Systems Corp (aka = ISC) to port the System V/Vax code to a 386 ps/2 and an Intel reference sys= tem that used an ISA bus.=C2=A0 This would be eventually released in source= at the 386 port from AT&T. =C2=A0 As part of the contract summit suppl= ied the compiler

I know the AT&T assembler wit= h it=E2=80=99s backwards syntax from Intel was done before rms did his.=C2= =A0 He was compatible with the summit assembler.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t reme= mber who=E2=80=99s 386 backend came out first.=C2=A0 I think is was the sum= mit compiler but you needed a system v license which UCB did not have.=C2= =A0

There's also a fair amo= unt of work at MIT to do Intel code generation for 8086 (small mode) that w= as extended by Queens College London (I think, I gotta grab the tapes again= ) to do large mode. I've run into this looking for a compiler for the V= enix source restoration project I've been tilting at. I found those bas= ed on a cryptic comment I found somewhere online about the tech behind Veni= x that wasn't from AT&T. I don't know if ISC started with them = as a base or not, nor really how the MIT compilers came about, but they cla= im to be PCC based somehow. Don't know if this helps you on your quest.= .. BTW, I found these when I found the latest pcc-restoration sources didn&= #39;t have a working i86 backend anymore (there was once one for Minux, but= when I built it I couldn't get it to generate sensible code at all).

Warner
=C2=A0
Clem

Sent from= my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.=C2=A0

On Jul 11, 2019, at 8:50 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@sup= erglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:

=
That would make se= nse.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I was able to find some info on PCC2 here

I'm guessing along with the ado= ption of emacs the csrg must have been further gnu synergy...=C2=A0 Or mayb= e PCC2 just wasn't available outside of the labs?

Or maybe by '88 gcc was already= usurping many of the c compilers of the era.





On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0800, "Cl= em cole" <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

I believe the pcc/386 came out of Steve Johnson team at Summit with the PCC= 2 work. =C2=A0

Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be al= most but not quite.=C2=A0

On Jul 11, 2019, at 7:5= 3 AM, Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:

Does anyone know where the = 386 port from PCC came from?

=C2=A0=

While trying to build a Tahoe userland for the i= 386, it seems that everything was built with GCC=E2=80=A6

Was there a PCC for the i386 around =E2=80=9988-90?=C2=A0 It seems= after the rapid demise of the Tahoe/Harris

HCX-9 that the non Vax/HCX-9 platforms had moved to GCC?

=C2=A0=

Also anyone kno= w any good test software for LIBC?=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve been tracing through = some

stra= nge issues rebuilding LIBC from Tahoe, where I had to include some bits fro= m

Reno to= get diropen to actually work.=C2=A0 I would imagine there ought to have be= en some

p= latform exercise code to make sure things were actually working instead of = say

build= ing as much as you can, and playing rogue for a few hours to make sure

its stable en= ough.

--0000000000001e73fa058d6a904c--