From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 2af0e037 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 00:14:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 465FC9C14F; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:14:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D879C0FD; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:14:05 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="J5bpmUMU"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B83119C0FD; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:14:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f67.google.com (mail-qv1-f67.google.com [209.85.219.67]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CF7F9BFE6 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 2020 10:14:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f67.google.com with SMTP id l14so626847qvu.12 for ; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 16:14:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=KdLGn2gMVQ5Rb/UNOtIsJOHoDoqGiIHItUHtt6ifO54=; b=J5bpmUMUg8nCQSDT2NQWTlsUrGLNuQbe7tI+G5o8HPYc7Wzopnom74zxNuXUd3m9Ie SwYY41S1XNhuA6EamXziJ5KgiewlKISL3n6QYZOn7JyVZOXtqtJHVM6zstXdyMSUj18c yG8sZBzXYNaHWVKz2sUbgQHP/e/PKvGzMz9FAkGSf87hHdJYgMGPX3rkuzMMIhGRM0UI aH1Oc1fCcdpvgL66CkbqX2TLIAfZIaHKP8X0XXpKF/hv/Jltdx0Eg6SZvPTUM/Np6zS+ elzRAznLDr3WaJ7zB/Lf3qgMSzfnUtNj/SY9Ju4t96OScMnHA51SrFOkJ1bC83SngrOJ L0zQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=KdLGn2gMVQ5Rb/UNOtIsJOHoDoqGiIHItUHtt6ifO54=; b=NQM6/jomEqSB4aLic8lmHMFDPONc44Dz2FxFHXI/Eqz52dkGeOebX76eDuCysqih6t XiHOtprX4htj+y+k4D42GpEXoamWnRWOHoYOPyYU5NhYWghVFOA1F/PUAIQnE5G4c4AZ 8G/xUsyNaia8SAgRj8RZ2Pw412K5ec+ESR7iTTYL87tzVocy9DmN4NwIA+OoJIFNA8p3 8VADGfPKc33I0dyQA84FGAt0sfuyGf0CFYp79JCLzCzEhs2u22oTymEBevLGPvB6t+tH 7BvB1oMcfRYEr50yZPeq+D6Vg81FEFM9RPYwAsYSuotMY4P3PwSDzzCmBsz2y3rd+OYJ U1Sg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXkz5mqs6fNqR+f9oQM1xct+ufwnNsBk0DDzv7dl5EhWbNqlcMi Ypqk5KljH/f8q11PShbIGmkhO3sOUhyQSeSECAdWrQ0A X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxoVRjSdecLQ5fNA9ue+M93SFcwZJf43IjBxwcoDv+2EDHNyzZQwnSxItQV04kZ/BlLxzXri26yn2tZF6F4bWA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2a1:: with SMTP id m1mr2299315qvv.125.1579565640809; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 16:14:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200117195908.GF15253@ancienthardware.org> <20200118035051.GC481935@mit.edu> <20200118041913.GB67053@eureka.lemis.com> <20200119024900.GA15860@mit.edu> <20200119031225.GI67053@eureka.lemis.com> <20200119035808.GK67053@eureka.lemis.com> <20200119132551.GC15860@mit.edu> <20200120190900.GH15860@mit.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 17:13:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eb96d0059c9b480a" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Early Linux and BSD (was: On the origins of Linux - "an academic question") X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000eb96d0059c9b480a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 4:06 PM Greg A. Woods wrote: > At Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:09:00 -0500, "Theodore Y. Ts'o" > wrote: > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Early Linux and BSD (was: On the origins of Linux - > "an academic question") > > > > On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 07:32:57PM -0800, Greg A. Woods wrote: > > > > Out of curiosity, did the articles contain download information for a > > > > bootable copy of 386BSD? > > > > > > Yes, they did: > > > > > > > https://www.drdobbs.com/porting-unix-to-the-386-the-final-step/184408800 > > > > .... which is dated July 1992, and describes a "launch" of 386BSD > > Release 0.0 in March 17, 1992. This is contemporaneous with Linux > > 0.95a (which by coincidence was also released on March 17th, 1992.) > > Yes, though as I recall all of the articles mentioned that the OS could > be downloaded, but I pointed at that final article as it was the first > one in which I found explicit mention of the FTP server name(s). > > > The first "real" distribution, the Soft Landing System, was released > > in May 1992. (The Manchester Computer Centre distribution in November > > 1991 was a floppy-based distro containing command-line and development > > utilities, but not X Windows, so some people don't feel it counts as a > > full-featured distribution.) > > The actual 386bsd Release 0.0 (the one done directly by Bill and Lynne > Jolitz) announcement is dated "March 7, 1992" according to the first > post about it on comp.unix.bsd (and according to that announcement there > was a meeting at Apple in Cupertino (SVNet) on the 11'th where copies of > the floppies were made available for copying (comp.unix.bsd: > <2763@tardis.Tymnet.COM>). > > Note that according to an article from Unigram ("Issue 396", dated > August 3-7, 1992, (p)re-posted by Tom Limoncelli in comp.unix.bsd) this > "386bsd 0.0" was actually a re-write of earlier work to create a "386" > based release of BSD. Apparently UCB lawyers asked Jolitz to destroy > all the initial work done for the release, and he complied and rewrote > what became 0.0 from scratch again, starting with the plain NET2 > release. (comp.unix.bsd: <1992Aug1.020513.14170@plts.uucp>) > > I would argue that in one way of looking at things NetBSD (and by > extension FreeBSD) really started with the 0.0 patch kit, and that's > also dated March 15, 1992 by Chris Demetriou. I agree though that the > creation of the first commits in the CVS repository represent a more > direct reflection of the intent to create a unique thing called NetBSD. > Lots of people were building CVS repos based on the patchkits... Chris wasn't trying to start a project, but more was trying to find a way of organizing everything that people were working on. At least that's what I recall from the rumors I'd heard on campus after Chris visited Boulder... Warner (On March 13, 1992 there was a post by Mike Stump on comp.unix.bsd > asking for someone to coordinate patches for 386bsd; and Pace Willisson > posted the first patch in response on March 14, 1992; and Chris replied > on the same day saying he would put such patches up on > agate.berkeley.edu; and the "README.PATCHES" file appeared there on > March 15, 1992.) > > -- > Greg A. Woods > > Kelowna, BC +1 250 762-7675 RoboHack > Planix, Inc. Avoncote Farms > --000000000000eb96d0059c9b480a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 4:06 PM Greg A. Woods <woods@robohack.ca> wrote:
At Mon, 20 Jan 2020 14:09:00 -0500, "Theo= dore Y. Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Early Linux and BSD (was: On the origins of Linux - &qu= ot;an academic question")
>
> On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 07:32:57PM -0800, Greg A. Woods wrote:
> > > Out of curiosity, did the articles contain download informat= ion for a
> > > bootable copy of 386BSD?
> >
> > Yes, they did:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.drdobbs.com/porting-unix-to-the-386-the-final-step= /184408800
>
> .... which is dated July 1992, and describes a "launch" of 3= 86BSD
> Release 0.0 in March 17, 1992.=C2=A0 This is contemporaneous with Linu= x
> 0.95a (which by coincidence was also released on March 17th, 1992.)
Yes, though as I recall all of the articles mentioned that the OS could
be downloaded, but I pointed at that final article as it was the first
one in which I found explicit mention of the FTP server name(s).

> The first "real" distribution, the Soft Landing System, was = released
> in May 1992.=C2=A0 (The Manchester Computer Centre distribution in Nov= ember
> 1991 was a floppy-based distro containing command-line and development=
> utilities, but not X Windows, so some people don't feel it counts = as a
> full-featured distribution.)

The actual 386bsd Release 0.0 (the one done directly by Bill and Lynne
Jolitz) announcement is dated "March 7, 1992" according to the fi= rst
post about it on comp.unix.bsd (and according to that announcement there was a meeting at Apple in Cupertino (SVNet) on the 11'th where copies o= f
the floppies were made available for copying (comp.unix.bsd:
<2763@tardis.Tymnet.COM>).

Note that according to an article from Unigram ("Issue 396", date= d
August 3-7, 1992, (p)re-posted by Tom Limoncelli in comp.unix.bsd) this
"386bsd 0.0" was actually a re-write of earlier work to create a = "386"
based release of BSD.=C2=A0 Apparently UCB lawyers asked Jolitz to destroy<= br> all the initial work done for the release, and he complied and rewrote
what became 0.0 from scratch again, starting with the plain NET2
release.=C2=A0 (comp.unix.bsd: <1992Aug1.020513.14170@plts.uucp>)

I would argue that in one way of looking at things NetBSD (and by
extension FreeBSD) really started with the 0.0 patch kit, and that's also dated March 15, 1992 by Chris Demetriou.=C2=A0 I agree though that the=
creation of the first commits in the CVS repository represent a more
direct reflection of the intent to create a unique thing called NetBSD.
=

Lots= of people were building CVS repos based on the patchkits... Chris wasn'= ;t trying to start a project, but more was trying to find a way of organizi= ng everything that people were working on. At least that's what I recal= l from the rumors I'd heard on campus after Chris visited Boulder...=C2= =A0=C2=A0

Warner

(On March 13, 1992 there was a post by Mike Stump on comp.unix.bsd
asking for someone to coordinate patches for 386bsd; and Pace Willisson
posted the first patch in response on March 14, 1992; and Chris replied
on the same day saying he would put such patches up on
agate.berkeley.edu; and the "README.PATCHES" file= appeared there on
March 15, 1992.)

--
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Greg A. = Woods <gwoods@acm.org>

Kelowna, BC=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+1 250 762-7675=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0RoboHack <woods@robohack.ca>
Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Avoncote Farms = <woods@avoncote.ca>
--000000000000eb96d0059c9b480a--