From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6132 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2022 16:15:06 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 22 Sep 2022 16:15:06 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6C040A19; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 02:14:56 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-f182.google.com (mail-lj1-f182.google.com [209.85.208.182]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5F9F40A06 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2022 02:14:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-f182.google.com with SMTP id l12so11575633ljg.9 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:14:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=E5wrig+EqEpatEnE82oQD6zOXqfwiffhueMsYLa65WA=; b=zjdOH6tDo+4Yl5F2cdGhbBS1EQvPWiSyMbFcGth4ShqbR1yxRXN5+yM9/UMya+mqku YJwchUHQITn0uRF+BaJS8JVSCSVgjr1k7brqbtp0EVwq/gRTg7mUDz7FtGokdI+MnqZl Rjo3HDJOConDoEPKX0IN09Ipu/09x2Dc3PtHv60GqASrUr6kWgcidkzBzFbR6PXzbcU1 fPgzKxWyORl+/R77TuzjcGkaoIk63Tz3G3S7zKGTutcmd/fthqR/JiVJsCliGg6bFrOf q4EU7nAS1VG7fgH/h8fbn96j2ZG3mZKB/zQ3BrGNQzYv4xtdn5uWc6x/NSlFQhzs5vK+ /iDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=E5wrig+EqEpatEnE82oQD6zOXqfwiffhueMsYLa65WA=; b=YfVQBc203FplqAwovFXTXAwwZuXRlx38JDHDq3XfpWTWH6MGqaB+Ycr6OyzgquzplV JKvI+hu002W/Z7cUhemckFaROQk681L+GdPC8xeiVappQjkAdCXvb2YR1qNMyno3oq8I F11li5jnHIsTMT+wT2q/im6/ZYOnWsP7Aj6mlhySe3kb3Gx6oQeH8sa6M3gSWK1NcQbh /0MVJrnHD1TrgHuesOCKsyeUFSutFCuxdMDH+j0+HtoYkfK1lgcxmkSFL/dJ5/gXpDVN S8BB2vgPvsbz/gpmFyH+vVMa0J9jW7C1TTnbBSlbnbMwsA4yS6JKXqDpZDuJXBMRKBSC NjCA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3h28ZJ665HR4YadLeqHd2XYkUhOQxvsprQLWpAk9Coj1s+8rOC ovFeV0KkPsBr5N5EzPtUfF+eKQ601QqY58C6yHnXGoVGyAU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7t0lE0dbRbyCK5tN1OZpnBTeByhSw90F0G6+c6eVNFzt8Dm43AzrCn6rK+sRoFCt4Eo76nyFKdsYMuARrBNXA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9d88:0:b0:26a:95c1:218f with SMTP id c8-20020a2e9d88000000b0026a95c1218fmr1361821ljj.223.1663863229502; Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:13:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202209220842.28M8gtYE020021@freefriends.org> <20220922090050.9405B200BA@orac.inputplus.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20220922090050.9405B200BA@orac.inputplus.co.uk> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 10:13:38 -0600 Message-ID: To: Ralph Corderoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000bff06205e946580c" Message-ID-Hash: MHWO23ANSTOZE37MBKP3MSF532ESBOOX X-Message-ID-Hash: MHWO23ANSTOZE37MBKP3MSF532ESBOOX X-MailFrom: wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Strange Reference on Usenix_77 tape List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000bff06205e946580c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 3:00 AM Ralph Corderoy wrote: > Hi Arnold, > > > For those of us not involved with Unix in 1977, what was the > > HRSTS system? > > =E2=80=98The Harvard/Radcliffe Student Time-sharing System Terminal Users= Guide, > 1st edition, September 10, 1974, Center for Research in Computing > Technology, Harvard University=E2=80=99. > These are the same folks that also did the LISP that appeared in various 2BSD distributions as well. I had a bit of a sleepless night last night... So I took a look at it and I'm less hopeful about being able to rebuild the system. There's a special C compiler. We have the binaries for it and instructions on how to build the source. But those instructions refer to files that aren't in the system and not in the few historic unix distributions from around that time. At least there's a binary. Next, the kernel lacks the makefiles / build scripts, but so does v6, so maybe that's par for the course. There's a lot of userland changes (for libh and libg), but other than the libraries and a few special progarms (pl1, macro11, link11, etc), so I'm assuming that most of the stock 6th edition could be used. Finally, how do I bootstrap? Is this a "Install v6, and then build our cool stuff" or is that also a missing piece. So there's a number of challenges here.... This was definitely not the era of fully integrated reproducible build systems... Warner > Tucker Taft was involved back then. > https://www.adahome.com/Rogues/taft.html > https://twitter.com/sttaft > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > --000000000000bff06205e946580c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 3:00 AM Ralph= Corderoy <ralph@inputplus.co.u= k> wrote:
Hi Arnold,

> For those of us not involved with Unix in 1977, what was the
> HRSTS system?

=E2=80=98The Harvard/Radcliffe Student Time-sharing System Terminal Users G= uide,
=C2=A01st edition, September 10, 1974, Center for Research in Computing
=C2=A0Technology, Harvard University=E2=80=99.

These are the same folks that also did the LISP that appeared in va= rious 2BSD
distributions as well.

I had = a bit of a sleepless night last night... So I took a look at it and I'm= less hopeful
about being able to rebuild the system.
<= br>
There's a special C compiler. We have the binaries for it= and instructions on how
to build the source. But those=C2=A0inst= ructions refer to files that aren't in the system
and not in = the few historic unix distributions from around that time. At least there&#= 39;s
a binary.

Next, the kernel lacks th= e makefiles / build scripts, but so does v6, so maybe
that's = par for the course.

There's a lot of userland = changes (for libh and libg), but other than the
libraries and a f= ew special progarms=C2=A0(pl1, macro11, link11, etc), so I'm assuming
that most of the stock 6th edition could be used.

Finally, how do I bootstrap? Is this a "Install v6, and then = build our cool stuff"
or is that also a missing piece.
=

So there's a number of challenges here....=C2=A0 Th= is was definitely not the era of
fully integrated reproducibl= e build systems...

Warner
=C2=A0
Tucker Taft was involved back then.
https://www.adahome.com/Rogues/taft.html
https://twitter.com/sttaft

--
Cheers, Ralph.
--000000000000bff06205e946580c--