From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0c361f72 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 02:40:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 86AB6A3711; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:40:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6FD8A3704; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:39:48 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="qV6pQDp4"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E2A7BA3705; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:39:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f178.google.com (mail-qk1-f178.google.com [209.85.222.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96BC2A3704 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:39:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f178.google.com with SMTP id c21so8679496qkl.6 for ; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 18:39:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CyKMEKVfR3BmJrl99VgVUiTvRLaTQe+fi4t27hRi79A=; b=qV6pQDp4wd3JrSiAXKtmiK2AHZoADWzH2E3Ka8FrRV3+kuVsYmyBACPxUhRgg4Tl/M Q5QxyimYO/8MEDwev6wmibbtxV8wRztNNQmuH+OxWjCqAhq7IQk6NGWHoB8Bk2lOlgtM 7VbWCwWQ2QGl3tRQNDJMcpg1RklKB8t+jTvjcOblCeRfcfu0j1FoIWu6HVssWRjl9k2Q JED6LEXQlf6cLP048c89GF+5nvh8shbo6MZfOVqA5rYdzVyWxTbWfLRU903ewRjqIl30 PP3bh1ixx2FzokaIvvcBWorSSJCZej2XroQtvvkJxW9q1ZLEtfkYUUONQIbv5tPLLtiX YzmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CyKMEKVfR3BmJrl99VgVUiTvRLaTQe+fi4t27hRi79A=; b=WZi5uZksS+pYWh6SSbUm4mVeGlZLIfhwNdyTWH9VRTn95l4RE6VPWfyOqYkNJ2Gkb7 5aplaWbh3O0k42sRTHvLU4jQd3dGqDyj8Ol4UDQLeaZj3/28m32kGbbnv5XhDWfnAIz+ F+JOhcIJ5pLktdpFAVjuRkAyrilicezShgPUo+dwzcdFgXZjDIevSnZWLkxoPHUqqcr0 6/JdMADE4/2o2nDST0aS+H1r17ba2qA3F9DLD5grJtxJZb6ne3ntOYRbFZCXMZAd9MgC 1Lzdh4A2Gk/cYa/D2o0pbI+o1aMTHC46a0XuYqFDGowD7f/CfAYT3ZoMhNoVv59JHI3M m8dg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukevjc5qRGouBHIwvp2nWU/8h+MTfWAyKaQ9lihDD1ialvRpfSD4 mXEnECr4veJOI6aP7pAGJblb5oKhFR+pfiHepbbh/A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7uvsFUxLF9LmIyO+1KlriXs2ITPcTD+aNxLvRoBTxJunTJyI3+9M0uba1UwovVkcMZ1MDWGByVgUEY7Ie2bnM= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6c05:: with SMTP id h5mr55991328qkc.175.1546828782552; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 18:39:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201901062341.x06NfXe2021557@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2019 19:39:30 -0700 Message-ID: To: Steve Nickolas Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001cdff2057ed524c5" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix [really RMS bashing] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000001cdff2057ed524c5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, 7:06 PM Steve Nickolas On Sun, 6 Jan 2019, A. P. Garcia wrote: > > > On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, 7:43 PM Jon Steinhart > > > > > > >> > > I would argue that Linux would not have happened without the internet > >> making it possible for folks around the world to participate. And I > think > >> that there's a good chance that the tools would have been created > anyway. > >> > > > > That's more or less how I look at it. Back in the day there was > > comp.sources.unix for example. In Unix itself, there was /usr/ where > tools > > developed by users other than the core developers belonged, and there was > > /usr/ucb/ where they put stuff from Berkeley. The culture surrounding > Unix > > has always seemed to encourage outside participation, going back to the > > lenient licensing of Research Unix, and even before that, when it just > > existed at Murray Hill. > > > >> > > > > If not for GNU, Unix would still have been cloned. Net/2 happened in > parallel, did it not? > Berkeley actively rewrote most of unix yes. Net/1 was released about the same time GNU was getting started. Net/2 and later 4.4 BSD continued this trend, where 4.4 was finally a complete system. BSD386 only lagged Linux by about a year and had much stronger networking support, but supported fewer obscure devices than linux... Warner Ps I know this glosses over a lot, and isn't intended to be pedantic as to who got where first. Only they were about the same time... and I'm especially glossing over the AT&T suits, etc. > --0000000000001cdff2057ed524c5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


= On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, 7:06 PM Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jan 2019, A. P. Garcia wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019, 7:43 PM Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com wr= ote
>
> <snip>
>
>>
> I would argue that Linux would not have happened without the internet<= br> >> making it possible for folks around the world to participate.=C2= =A0 And I think
>> that there's a good chance that the tools would have been crea= ted anyway.
>>
>
> That's more or less how I look at it. Back in the day there was > comp.sources.unix for example. In Unix itself, there was /usr/ where t= ools
> developed by users other than the core developers belonged, and there = was
> /usr/ucb/ where they put stuff from Berkeley. The culture surrounding = Unix
> has always seemed to encourage outside participation, going back to th= e
> lenient licensing of Research Unix, and even before that, when it just=
> existed at Murray Hill.
>
>>
>

If not for GNU, Unix would still have been cloned.=C2=A0 Net/2 happened in =
parallel, did it not?

Berkeley actively rewrote most of unix yes. Net/1 was = released about the same time GNU was getting started. Net/2 and later 4.4 B= SD continued this trend, where 4.4 was finally a complete system. BSD386 on= ly lagged Linux by about a year and had much stronger networking support, b= ut supported fewer obscure devices than linux...
Warner

Ps I know this glosses over a lot, and isn't intended to be p= edantic as to who got where first. Only they were about the same time... an= d I'm especially glossing over the AT&T suits, etc.
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