From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id c8a374f7 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 19:43:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D98D79C20D; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:43:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA8F9C14A; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:42:35 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="1gh+bu4k"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BD7A29C102; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:42:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f41.google.com (mail-qv1-f41.google.com [209.85.219.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 252D89C14A for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2020 05:42:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f41.google.com with SMTP id l14so313835qvu.12 for ; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:42:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DftKIDA6n7TLJ+a6Rl9aVzEOPltPIzROq07Jq36UObs=; b=1gh+bu4knpUeHSZCahvEatT0HJmrJ+iKridPTj93zlR1L64+YnIU2PsOvpzCt/b6RH vUgrTWWpV6nSlG2pzdHpjoRGZKVxnaiDyXT63ntFdr80gdqSmhK1ROod9Se4E4SYNkQS ZooFnzP2bDaaClt85KHx83atPetiA2HQZKeCVczPdmCkyhoslteOV08kiSSJZgWsBU8m 8+4OtpFv1t7tf43yNS05LS8otDPBiS9TEcN+xt8Y3R0lu2uw7+IYEvBTxjUzZKJxy389 c1lpmJxGm2kOlgw4NTht8Ykc806uHrLmm2tgWObpml93ksRch80flQU2HG/UmLqTLckR YMfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DftKIDA6n7TLJ+a6Rl9aVzEOPltPIzROq07Jq36UObs=; b=ifDCa7FeQ4deu36UHEYbck7Kk8niPTdmuyAGJTmeo0OI3D5v+tBJ/lvt7rXNQY0v4l dQJzQu0bbE2IuEPKiyVP+cuwD/yi2uKLFW545MG+XrLAWvPQYeeNbQqlTFabKfFCzXiX ul0KnPw8Pe7KHqCbURVzPbq6L8pbClPEPyJIQqszwjDQzFROkd0d0czwSYITM4ROtTEA adbEqIX0P3rAvU/ezbRzOdy/6rdM4BZmZCTCkDV3rneXFidxivJOxuZFG16iXKiRWcRa 265wEZX7O+wJ6zplYJatfM09o9ifyqeyCxKrId59GMZCkJyQVhR2np+1EDp4o5bdOy1R URKw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXYtMyTBVUC/DEQzvF4Tn2Zui9kElM4c4rKoKeyA2TxQqJurTCl TYZCzckAfyOHCsxsk6limaTAXxxMIvqtIAZm8W7cSQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqym5/mFkt7KrzI7MTeqoU8NXDyBIrE6cjCXN0yHRZyY4YFNVJpS06NGxYuPVQqjWTrJebMJQTXdxgsgc16HoCc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:965:: with SMTP id do5mr12362517qvb.202.1579722152153; Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:42:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:42:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b92829059cbfb9b3" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix quix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000b92829059cbfb9b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:21 AM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 12:55 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> I thought the answer was "ARPANET" since we had a NCP on 4th edition >> Unix in late 1974 or early 1975 from the University of Illinois dating from >> that time (the code in TUHS appears to be based on V6 + a number of >> patches). >> > Because we can't ask Greg sadly, I think the Holmgren is the last around > that would know definitively and I've personally lost track of him. > The publication date for the ACM paper is November 1975. I think I misspoke and you are right. The 4th edition was Nov 73, and 5th Edition was June 74 (6th was June 75). In order to meet deadlines for ACM publication, it most likely was 5th Edition, but there's also earlier references to it. That said, I don't think UofI had anything earlier than 5th edition (I > fairly sure that there were very few copies of 4th edition distributed > outside of the Bell: i.e. Columbia, NYU and I thought Harvard; but I don't > think too many more than that). Lou Katz would be a better source than I, > but I was always under the impression that the number 5th editions, the > count was also a smaller 2 digit integer. 6th was where Unix began to > 'spread' and by 7th, 'go viral.' > Berkeley's license was executed in January 74, so it might be on the list, unless there was a big delay. And to be honest, I personally thought that Steve and Greg did the ArpaNet > NCP work on V6, but it might have been v5th I suppose. I did not know > about it until the 6th edition work. But, they were fairly early. BTW: I > thought the Rand PIPE code was also developed on 6th, but those also might > have been 5th. > The code we have is from the 6th edition (judging by diffs, though there's some weird quirks between it and Dennis_v6, as well as a number of local patches). In addition to the Nov 1975 CACM paper, there's CAC 155, published by the University of Illinois on 3/15/75 which pre-dates the 6th edition by a few months. You can read it here https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/32547/networkunixsyste155holm.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y if you'd like. There's also CAC 177, which covers the period of Jan 1, 1974 to Dec 31, 1974 which references that Unix had been enhanced to add this after the contract periopd. This this report may have been issued after CAC 155 and may not be proof of an earlier date (though the issue date in its metadata in https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/34150 is 31 DEC 1974, it also reports activity through the end of the year so likely was written later). There's also CAC 162 dated May 15, 1975 ( https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/32293) that references UNIX talking to the mulix machine via the ARPANET protocols. RFC 681, dated March 18th, 1975, is another instance of an edited CAC 155 report (it seems, I've not looked at them exactly, just a quick glance) that talks about this work. It's the earliest mention of Unix in an RFC (the next one isn't until 2 years later for an email address for Dave Crocker DCrocker@Rand-Unix in RFC 724 in May 1977 after which it explodes in references). Warner --000000000000b92829059cbfb9b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 11:21 AM Clem= Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
=


On Wed, Jan 22, 2020 at 12:55 PM Warner Losh &l= t;imp@bsdimp.com>= ; wrote:
=
I=C2=A0 thought the answer was "ARP= ANET" since we had a NCP on 4th edition Unix in late 1974 or early 197= 5 from the University of Illinois dating from that time (the code in TUHS a= ppears to be based on V6=C2=A0+ a number of patches).
Because we can't ask = Greg sadly, I think the Holmgren is the last around that would know definit= ively and I've personally lost track of him.
<= /div>

The publication date for the ACM pape= r is November 1975. I think I misspoke and you are right. The 4th edition w= as Nov 73, and 5th Edition was June 74 (6th was June 75). In order to meet = deadlines for ACM publication, it most likely was 5th Edition, but there= 9;s also earlier references to it.

<= div>That said, I don't think UofI had anyth= ing earlier than 5th edition (I fairly sure that there were very few copies= of 4th edition distributed outside of the Bell: i.e. Columbia, NYU and I t= hought Harvard; but I don't think too many more than that).=C2=A0 Lou K= atz would be a better source than I, but I was always under the impression = that the number 5th editions, the count was also a smaller 2 digit integer.= =C2=A0 6th was where Unix began to 'spread' and by 7th, 'go vir= al.'=C2=A0

<= div>Berkeley's license was executed in January 74, so it might be on th= e list, unless there was=C2=A0a big delay.

And to be honest, I personally thou= ght that Steve and Greg did the ArpaNet NCP work on V6, but it might have b= een v5th I suppose.=C2=A0 I did not know about it until the 6th edition wor= k.=C2=A0 But, they were fairly early.=C2=A0 BTW: I thought the Rand PIPE co= de was also developed on 6th, but those also might have been 5th.

The code we have is = from the 6th edition (judging by diffs, though there's some weird quirk= s between it and Dennis_v6, as well as a number of local patches).

In addition to the Nov 1975 CACM paper, there's CAC 15= 5, published by the University of Illinois on 3/15/75 which pre-dates the 6= th edition by a few months. You can read it here=C2=A0https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstrea= m/handle/2142/32547/networkunixsyste155holm.pdf?sequence=3D2&isAllowed= =3Dy=C2=A0if you'd like. There's also CAC 177, which covers the= period of Jan 1, 1974 to Dec 31, 1974 which references that Unix had been = enhanced to add this after the contract periopd. This this report may have = been issued after CAC 155 and may not be proof of an earlier date (though t= he issue date in its metadata in=C2=A0https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/34150<= /a>=C2=A0is 31 DEC 1974, it also reports activity through the end of the ye= ar so likely was written later). There's also CAC 162 dated May 15, 197= 5 (https://ww= w.ideals.illinois.edu/handle/2142/32293) that references UNIX talking t= o the mulix machine via the ARPANET protocols.

RFC= 681, dated March 18th, 1975, is another instance of an edited CAC 155 repo= rt=C2=A0 (it seems, I've not looked at them exactly, just a quick glanc= e) that talks about this work. It's the earliest mention of Unix in an = RFC (the next one isn't until 2 years later for an email address for Da= ve Crocker=C2=A0DCrocker@Rand-Unix in RFC 724 in May 1977 after which it ex= plodes in references).

Warner

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