From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8119 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2021 00:35:09 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 17 Jul 2021 00:35:09 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 8D7F49C7F8; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 10:35:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5018D9C7F1; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 10:34:33 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="A+MlSzii"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 56CF19C7F1; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 10:34:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f52.google.com (mail-vs1-f52.google.com [209.85.217.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C26279C7F0 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 10:34:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f52.google.com with SMTP id f4so6059873vsh.11 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 17:34:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SQKPxz5Va693djMoGG7zva4qgiRSm5V0sFYoys8EPwM=; b=A+MlSzii8KrOZZwWyqg/vx908gFyurZdYNTBScdGkmV8tHQArkOJeOmd/+fp6/ww/A 0jsdTJa+sGd/kT251LBz20uZJQrukeaRMwEH1SC1o8BiUlIA90ILjx7hGOpLvNeshpBY P8RmU1Xp558pVmwcynwRf1D9Nur/LQHmRQ8wsmC3VWYX7S+pjzAHrIqc5gJqGOH40Mtm 8TYwL83qKJWY59FoJAc/FDzMxlGAUzjeh1oNY1foLrh4zlJqmPn23oM8AfDyl4Qgg3QA Z93/FT19biQrSHjxWEelybeFEqpqxrsfqjf6ZLRJMLrp09nyi9WWIIJcklk2KM8uAb/M e3FA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SQKPxz5Va693djMoGG7zva4qgiRSm5V0sFYoys8EPwM=; b=R2myupVmufA9awXZm3bQcbZXXieLbd8wmiXEOTDq5niR4LJxWDTj0oCqgddqMnfvif GHhERggNlLdepXcoPXVr4HofpXhNqm5yrmxDlpH+jKWpsQ/8Lt5ruvPXac8sXd6d7mmH erqoUe2AFTGIdzO5Ur3VCNFBi8uEUbeS443II4sLI5RSLcASTNH5WwuQKqx5FfmOfVKW ndNpQ/SpzoAFFranOT5EWV5BIAvBbHQOuF+p8v99BIMwSKpa/l4C2/Z97w0B+juZrr+j XM9NufDwxi8dZmYpyib29uELvJlJd2IdeD6139yBM4O2EafuOkT11rUgiPTiVhOe8W6F 0TOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Qy92gY8da0vt1+zgIQbU4qKKr1G03EGeC8azQmh6Fq045NF7A +TiW8pW40bE/7w+Ealo9eikgP5XK8EisMgWM51A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxNXD76TSRBPLGjFgICx9sX9giLgVIbR3otb0Nq2iHw1pqA7aflo7BoVlAPo99zMsGKeIHKwgkJEbUv72ituBs= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ed5a:: with SMTP id m26mr15674407vsp.59.1626482068881; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 17:34:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1626375671.1426.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> <7wczriptt4.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> In-Reply-To: From: Charles Anthony Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 17:34:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f303d305c746ddc1" Subject: Re: [TUHS] head/sed/tail (was The Unix shell: a 50-year view) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000f303d305c746ddc1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 7:20 AM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 4:05 AM Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > >> Clem Cole wrote: >> > The 'second' C compiler was a PDP-10 and Honeywell (36-bit) target >> > Alan Synder did for his MIT Thesis. It was originally targeted to ITS >> > for the PDP-10, but it ran on Tops-20 also. My >>memory<< is he used >> > a 7-bit Character, ala SAIL, with 5 chars stored in a word with a bit >> > leftover. >> >> On ITS it only ever stored characters as full 36-bit words! So sizeof >> char == 1 == sizeof int. This is allowed per the C standard. (Maybe it >> was updated somewhere else, I dunno.) >> > > Ah - that makes sense. I never programmed the Honeywell in anything but > Dartmouth BASIC (mostly) and any early FORTRAN (very little) and the whole > idea of storage size was somewhat oblivious to me at the point as I was a > youngster when I did that. Any idea did the Honeywell treat chars as > 36-bit entities also? Steve, maybe you remember? > > The Honeywell 6000 machines ran GCOS; the system standard was six six-bit characters per word. The Honeywell 6100 machines ran Multics; the system standard was four nine-bit characters per word. For Multics C, sizeof (*) != sizeof (int) and NULL != 0, so a lot of "portable" C code wasn't. -- Charles --000000000000f303d305c746ddc1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 7:20 AM Clem = Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
<= /div>


On Fri, Jul 16, 2021 at 4:05 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
Clem Cole wrote:
> The 'second' C compiler was a PDP-10 and Honeywell (36-bit) ta= rget
> Alan Synder did for his MIT Thesis.=C2=A0 It was originally targeted t= o ITS
> for the PDP-10, but it ran on Tops-20 also.=C2=A0 My >>memory<= ;< is he used
> a 7-bit Character, ala SAIL, with 5 chars stored in a word with a bit<= br> > leftover.

On ITS it only ever stored characters as full 36-bit words!=C2=A0 So sizeof=
char =3D=3D 1 =3D=3D sizeof int.=C2=A0 This is allowed per the C standard.= =C2=A0 (Maybe it
was updated somewhere else, I dunno.)

Ah - that=C2=A0makes sense.= =C2=A0 I never programmed the Honeywell in anything but Dartmouth BASIC (mo= stly) and any early FORTRAN (very little) and the whole idea of storage siz= e was somewhat oblivious to me at the point as I was a youngster when I did= that.=C2=A0 Any idea did the Honeywell treat chars as 36-bit entities also= ?=C2=A0 Steve, maybe you remember?


T= he Honeywell 6000 machines ran GCOS; the system standard was six six-bit ch= aracters per word.

The Honeywell 6100 machines ran Multics; the syst= em standard was four nine-bit characters per word.

For Multics C, sizeof (*) !=3D sizeof (int) and NULL !=3D 0, so a lot of &= quot;portable" C code wasn't.

-- Charles<= /div>

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