From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 009D2258A3 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2025 03:29:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB6A43BC4; Thu, 14 Aug 2025 11:29:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7668343BC3 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2025 11:29:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-88432cc7058so13511239f.0 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:29:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1755134985; x=1755739785; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=e6uUbLj5B9X18nxnCVJbLITq8FG9jXLc0y0p1uR0FG4=; b=fJxAMM1ATG01a+pKfE1Sv6+iIRuxgUqJcHiZoaxUJtFWmkUjrWiJYXMW91Gx1PQwHF ghKCBvxuyUuoS3rSZWxPorqZrfWbmrDKcPgtlpxQVaiS0/bQAmwkC33GhNlqLTohvMbX dIyzoszfnPGxPXR82I7HvzsHIJyI+tiN20QnU3sAnZpw0/LDOwLtE0zLU5FI8ED6MML2 tVLo/KsIe7FABAjIsawnm3rBBv6q9sdi0uVa/7gbwqB2KsEbN1m0cJshYl0EhV+K0GOE KK5DHB0JFUueX7ylx9Q/5WIhGQgKjE/qe/i14lk4nUYtSIT0RJe6oAWYkCIpz9E5/pl+ ZFeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1755134985; x=1755739785; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=e6uUbLj5B9X18nxnCVJbLITq8FG9jXLc0y0p1uR0FG4=; b=IYlJAtO2xTuVlJ99V7YF98CekLzN4CY4qPKk+m7CXJdUReU00lFeWhK2dZcKA1627N 09tqaSITN+XJi4kW+OaPeCYCTvxUh9iOrCIUAGwyy2p5boLiKDOVFRaH1/m35eB9dWpv pvuHH1aVuGW6n3fboYZg6ms9guYzif9zXgL35eTMxckxsHWW/kcRRG6srVuXEdpTs7mn zWxfmWiO7mu+Q6ndXd/hz6k8QcgVGyHwXo4FFsAw3XMsY4AqEdSFkQ0LVKze6bsQUKEC HXPsWdfpd80XaRki05SEMB8UepLLuZvES0+nl0vjk36E8djLxMgSakoZjM/Ecb0S76Ag 2oww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw7S6/BWfNZg3DG4GZDroR8SmfYgvkpS13k/nGZ5d5uaBcJ3uP7 TeKWgcXs2OsSTZ6KjHUV4am62NP9kPsoXDQnwI1rbay/2plVpGS2W+4aNOOeWtw11B4Mrbzr3iJ KJ5EiFqArOqMuLzXLnoux18EAepn7Mls0+QTOnvSakg== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsZ76HufmeAPgENqcpyqnj7uv7eWhtGLVcpFmONBx2u+8BQp3d+dfSCc5W+7qW gHq2ZmKKpvZWpbFPrKMDKOKMILQ4ns8/AhJOMq02E4KnQjZijoQYnFEUScUsBq3J52ON8bwLvDZ HLOMd3XbkCVT9XCeYOa31l9VN525SQBcDEp5U/UC8Qs3C7JXm2QrzryvWxKeU5FfmTb+R2l8uQc DgQna9TfGHB3xbPfLCVdyZ5SJZHASzVVCTtP027fi/KTABY X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFx0nknU08lcjAJRKnt23evt+rHpdHbf9CQIUKCdKYVr2AkzCf8VRQ/fZssbjz1kcmr34wtDWqX9mLBQcV6AEk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:1695:b0:884:1d69:f1a9 with SMTP id ca18e2360f4ac-884337f79f1mr269813239f.4.1755134985393; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:29:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20250813015509.GA17097@mcvoy.com> <72c3722a-1feb-4131-aebd-bf996e659bb3@technologists.com> In-Reply-To: <72c3722a-1feb-4131-aebd-bf996e659bb3@technologists.com> From: Tom Lyon Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:29:34 -0700 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXzlFPix5MZEtOcLiQCb5HNadIeUCxq1fJ0UObyp6g_isqj6EXC91buz6AQ Message-ID: To: "Charles H. Sauer (he/him)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000565b1e063c4935a3" Message-ID-Hash: HDCQW6IQNI3U7QEFWAGA4FOGZCVFLG6K X-Message-ID-Hash: HDCQW6IQNI3U7QEFWAGA4FOGZCVFLG6K X-MailFrom: pugs78@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: NFS 40th anniversary event List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000565b1e063c4935a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed, IBM had quite broad support for NFS. There's a whole chapter in this Redbook (1993) about OS/2 NFS clients working with AIX, MVS, VM, and OS/2 servers. https://ia801201.us.archive.org/11/items/gg243531/gg243531_TCPIP_2_0_for_OS= 2_Installation_and_Interoperability.pdf On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 5:54=E2=80=AFPM Charles H. Sauer (he/him) < sauer@technologists.com> wrote: > On 8/13/2025 7:31 PM, Jonathan Gray wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:00=E2=80=AFAM Douglas McIlroy > >> wrote: > >>> I was always sorry that Peter Weinberger's RFS never made it outside > >>> Bell Labs. It allowed networking between separately administered > >>> systems by mapping UIDs. > >> > >> I believe it did? If I recall correctly, it was available with System > >> V, though perhaps I am misremembering. > >> > >> I have no doubt that RFS was technically superior to NFS, but Sun had > >> non-technical market advantages. Assuming that I am remembering > >> correctly, I suspect it was unsuccessful commercially for two reasons: > >> > >> 1. Sun gave NFS (and the associated RPC layer) away for free, under a > >> particularly liberal license, which lead to lots of interoperability > >> (Larry's and Dave's comments notwithstanding). I suspect by the time > >> RFS was available, it was much more expensive and less interoperable > >> across heterogeneous systems. > > > > The NFS reference code was licensed under NDA with some cost involved > > according to Rick Macklem who wrote the NFS code in 4.3BSD-Reno. > > > > Rick Macklem post to comp.protocols.nfs Aug 6, 1999 > > > https://groups.google.com/g/comp.protocols.nfs/c/npQbxPe_ZeQ/m/Z_yQcsh56m= kJ > > > > The userland RPC part was under different terms. > > > > "Sun will publish the source code for the user-level libraries that > > implement RPC and XDR." > > > > Bill Shannon post to net.unix-wizards Jan 13, 1985 > > > https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix-wizards/c/PkJdZgCbrC4/m/u0kt3eeFSt4J > > > > Sun RPC sources were later posted to mod.sources and included > > on USENIX tapes. > > That's consistent with my memory. In particular, if I recall correctly, > when I was still at IBM and we wanted to include NFS in AIX 3, it was > challenging ($$$) to negotiate a satisfactory license for NFS, but we > eventually obtained a license to include NFS in all IBM products (not > just AIX). > -- > voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com > fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ > Facebook/Google/LinkedIn/mas.to > : > CharlesHSauer > > --000000000000565b1e063c4935a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Indeed, IBM had quite broad support for NFS.
There'= ;s a whole chapter in this Redbook (1993) about OS/2 NFS clients working wi= th AIX, MVS, VM, and OS/2 servers.=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 5:54=E2=80=AFPM Charles H. = Sauer (he/him) <sauer@technol= ogists.com> wrote:
On 8/13/2025 7:31 PM, Jonathan Gray wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:00=E2=80=AFAM Douglas McIlroy
>> <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>> I was always sorry that Peter Weinberger's RFS never made = it outside
>>> Bell Labs. It allowed networking between separately administer= ed
>>> systems by mapping UIDs.
>>
>> I believe it did?=C2=A0 If I recall correctly, it was available wi= th System
>> V, though perhaps I am misremembering.
>>
>> I have no doubt that RFS was technically superior to NFS, but Sun = had
>> non-technical market advantages. Assuming that I am remembering >> correctly, I suspect it was unsuccessful commercially for two reas= ons:
>>
>> 1. Sun gave NFS (and the associated RPC layer) away for free, unde= r a
>> particularly liberal license, which lead to lots of interoperabili= ty
>> (Larry's and Dave's comments notwithstanding). I suspect b= y the time
>> RFS was available, it was much more expensive and less interoperab= le
>> across heterogeneous systems.
>
> The NFS reference code was licensed under NDA with some cost involved<= br> > according to Rick Macklem who wrote the NFS code in 4.3BSD-Reno.
>
> Rick Macklem post to comp.protocols.nfs Aug 6, 1999
> https://groups.googl= e.com/g/comp.protocols.nfs/c/npQbxPe_ZeQ/m/Z_yQcsh56mkJ
>
> The userland RPC part was under different terms.
>
> "Sun will publish the source code for the user-level libraries th= at
> implement RPC and XDR."
>
> Bill Shannon post to net.unix-wizards Jan 13, 1985
> https://groups.google.= com/g/net.unix-wizards/c/PkJdZgCbrC4/m/u0kt3eeFSt4J
>
> Sun RPC sources were later posted to mod.sources and included
> on USENIX tapes.

That's consistent with my memory. In particular, if I recall correctly,=
when I was still at IBM and we wanted to include NFS in AIX 3, it was
challenging ($$$) to negotiate a satisfactory license for NFS, but we
eventually obtained a license to include NFS in all IBM products (not
just AIX).
--
voice: +1.512.784.7526=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0e-mail: sauer@technologists.com
fax: +1.512.346.5240=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/
Facebook/Google/LinkedIn/mas.to: CharlesHSauer

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