From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5083A2FEC2 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2025 04:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538BB43C55; Thu, 14 Aug 2025 12:04:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-il1-x131.google.com (mail-il1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::131]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEAF543C54 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2025 12:04:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-il1-x131.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3e56fffda94so2399065ab.2 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 19:04:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1755137084; x=1755741884; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Sk6TacZvt4KSTfI5KQ3h+5rSipe46DeYOcHf7ELb8oM=; b=enk2oG5ydUe7XKDqSWm1KQzZTGET0RSpjs/84XMEPV2tM6Y4rpSDDMq5Zy6T9Wq33I UoYxGmX4R7YnIKpUp26cbAQAwwKS/lg6bQ61C57BR6gaz4sybPAl3f+bPgtgKu6rEiA6 6Ro+rMVA1SU7aIQ0UQVRlxzmwxRIQKGJpAUQYL2cn1ZVc8/P3/Iz5fRA3pDvP50aesLf 6syY3bpppbN0TRALIEd3Rwa6k5Mr3WwWJhcnCoaBLfIUP1fuCLIEg8oDNZvm0ALXLvBM ZmdK3cwkhci5PelVkjLgggFM782yLclK4N8Loy0uSKtoWfAcQV1z/xGIagCFCYVTd+5t DHzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1755137084; x=1755741884; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Sk6TacZvt4KSTfI5KQ3h+5rSipe46DeYOcHf7ELb8oM=; b=IG6sPwYggqojiwMy38MvXYU5QrORXXUSrjwGqrOl5AvqVlFmiNv6PMf7YA8rdcNv8c AYBKdgl/d+X1zoisfVA1pYOZ7zJBGil5Lue1Tg5R3XPdz4Sw8RP7wIZKkP7xGUaQtRmM eFnjTUcR9d//ji0B8UjmNRWvZniMj/ZAQwNfJXABFGfaMqlGX7rK2TvvpJCJF5ESnmX+ wS4rdEDK4Lju5xngu928MD01VfjYD84Xg5pvdVTxhb+oi9SCb1rZ0yFE2KFt2KnppC59 G9p4VkYajFIA2jUxyiJvJEAZ4W5aJhBciC68g64N5NshrbswNLeluviP/tC9Js1UFe1b 4vZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwB76RUORdU5FJdve0nPjNSjT83vQNTcO4MgWazxnc3uwbtjnTs E2lgj0jqf0im0NAW2ih0+HoB+BDSnLyQW/59qYaxlBy2O703CpCEgw1ko//Q8BUj/+C4l9hoW0M 4OM4gK5LDIr/jUkV1NHTBIajlH510JeY= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncukUT9U73Rc+EBf+HXe4l8uFiJ2Avr46n0hYGpWd6F+lEReH1ox2un/80fu3bP 7i53fZ3mn7+Tq0TXyLl5t+BvTmQMBhKzbHHLU7h94eVeaCcwN7no+QJdpMSmIjZxEL2RuX4O7B/ Oq2W0S9Mfv8yiNN7x8Utsnizw8UxBoOhtpx64mguy4FwQODqLOVlHWH3cnivs7V86R9awIN6/kU ZMQ+hOCf/Cbn2Y1wQOZJJoZ7S3LzGs1QZXY7Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE/58oRJOAYyuSXmH44E9Y03zUNOgYo5u6AWHyXxcBnhGvOVRxRoJwDUY55J9mQ48sGFufpgpcJ9Xl4cTa9NPI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1a8b:b0:3e5:4c7d:b78a with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3e57073fc3fmr26883905ab.4.1755137083830; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 19:04:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20250813015509.GA17097@mcvoy.com> <20250813155648.GA25260@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tom Lyon Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2025 19:04:32 -0700 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXwqaiInlttpR1P52ORGFmUj7H-8P0bCBwqMefVsgcdr7LNT7GtRj7-NYO8 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000069f748063c49b244" Message-ID-Hash: QHJRBXLZ2JRUH3VKMPJIQBF6OWKAH6PJ X-Message-ID-Hash: QHJRBXLZ2JRUH3VKMPJIQBF6OWKAH6PJ X-MailFrom: pugs78@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: NFS 40th anniversary event List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000069f748063c49b244 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No collaborators. Not that I'm trying at all, the talk kinda got the urge out of my system. I therorize that many people could benefit - but no hard data. On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 6:41=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah wr= ote: > I viewed this last October. Seemed like a bunch of sensible ideas. Did yo= u > find any collaborators? [Not offering, just curious!] > > I see these "storage" categories: chunks, files, namespaces, metadata, > databases & streams [1]. If you define a network protocol to handle > critical operations on them all, implementations would likely follow. > Engineers do better with well defined boundaries compared to "somewhere > beyond there"! > > [1] probably could be simplified. > > On Aug 13, 2025, at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM, Tom Lyon wrote: > > BTW, my own opinions abut NFS can be seen in my "NFS Must Die!" talk here= : > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZVF_djcccKc&ab_channel=3DTomLyon > > Not that NFS *was* bad - but it *is* bad (for non-casual use). > Like the C language, it was great for its time. Not so much anymore. > > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM Peter Weinberger (=E6=B8=A9=E5=8D= =9A=E6=A0=BC) via TUHS < > tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote: > >> It was a research proof-of-princple. (i.e.. partly principled and >> partly really hacky. My list of its issues was pretty long.) >> >> (If A mounted B's file system somewhere, and B mounted A's, then the >> directory tree was infinite. That's mathematics, not a bug.) >> >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 11:56=E2=80=AFAM Larry McVoy wrot= e: >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: >> > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:00???AM Douglas McIlroy >> > > wrote: >> > > > I was always sorry that Peter Weinberger's RFS never made it outsi= de >> > > > Bell Labs. It allowed networking between separately administered >> > > > systems by mapping UIDs. >> > > >> > > I believe it did? If I recall correctly, it was available with Syst= em >> > > V, though perhaps I am misremembering. >> > >> > Sunos had it, my office mate ported it. I was unimpressed, it worked >> well >> > between the same archs but was riddled with byte order problems and >> > ioctl calls that were not portable. >> > > --00000000000069f748063c49b244 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No collaborators.=C2=A0 Not that I'm trying at all, th= e talk kinda got the urge out of my system.
I therorize that many peopl= e could benefit - but no hard data.

On Wed, Aug = 13, 2025 at 6:41=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
I viewed this last October. Seemed like= a bunch of sensible ideas. Did you find any collaborators? [Not offering, = just curious!]

I see these "storage" categorie= s: chunks, files, namespaces, metadata, databases & streams [1]. If you= define a network protocol to handle critical operations on them all, imple= mentations would likely follow. Engineers do better with well defined bound= aries compared to "somewhere beyond there"!

<= div>[1] probably could be simplified.

On Aug 13, = 2025, at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM, Tom Lyon <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:

BTW, my own opinions abut NFS can be seen in my "NFS Must Die!&q= uot; talk here:=C2=A0https://www.youtube.com/watc= h?v=3DZVF_djcccKc&ab_channel=3DTomLyon

Not that = NFS *was* bad - but it *is* bad (for non-casual use).
Like the C = language, it was great for its time.=C2=A0 Not so much anymore.
<= br>


On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM Peter Weinb= erger (=E6=B8=A9=E5=8D=9A=E6=A0=BC) via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
It was a research proof-of-princple. = (i.e.. partly principled and
partly really hacky. My list of its issues was pretty long.)

(If A mounted B's file system somewhere, and B mounted A's, then th= e
directory tree was infinite. That's mathematics, not a bug.)

On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 11:56=E2=80=AFAM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:00???AM Douglas McIlroy
> > <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> > > I was always sorry that Peter Weinberger's RFS never mad= e it outside
> > > Bell Labs. It allowed networking between separately administ= ered
> > > systems by mapping UIDs.
> >
> > I believe it did?=C2=A0 If I recall correctly, it was available w= ith System
> > V, though perhaps I am misremembering.
>
> Sunos had it, my office mate ported it.=C2=A0 I was unimpressed, it wo= rked well
> between the same archs but was riddled with byte order problems and > ioctl calls that were not portable.

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