From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686E82BF33 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 22:45:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CAFC432CB; Tue, 20 Feb 2024 07:45:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B002D43269; Tue, 20 Feb 2024 07:45:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6e0f4e3bc59so1680408b3a.0; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:45:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1708379133; x=1708983933; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VLiV5KAOjF3yNRymjoi2U30RNpf1D2CdjqslmehOxWQ=; b=RbwP9OJJciwKo9GJ/QAX4+tlOS/f/rN98N2d/B56ClOHcTveIyE0LH7081R3QmLqiX l+5ppdcvxA0i9d+27LVPIAHarCyWhCTuVXzuqMgKIb0oRor4/1r6kqkKp7lRRpduhm4Y 28mWk0KwFXTL/3cZLTd72jrSL2VgTK+GshXiIYTY81MXsQPVUkW7e6h+3ElSKzH2lTp8 eI500DCxBjlTjh4gKskprYrpfJX0om1y+U/XlP0x75VglHoq4qQMh4wKLcIpWIurOsoD mIBhCHZWYuuq0AHONu/nT++ATZRICaDjV/+1YmUn+kEfrKiXqzfTjHhSAlIOKaYaA82C kfHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1708379133; x=1708983933; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=VLiV5KAOjF3yNRymjoi2U30RNpf1D2CdjqslmehOxWQ=; b=KeO5Gg3BFUWkAyNnayYXKL76rXYfN+yLkZR4NRDrbJ9EPXzEcG82jsug2ATJZf5vdV NnsBqe55jb0qBzpyrFT1B64JFkIODLPDXxc6oP+dWGbjTgVm/OMQX6mIrRernyhGyp3y M6JPt/5OTr5bAKrNX467+omcfMUBrFj5rJ0Jn/OXoHw1p2wgOtBZgqGJSpx9Ys/fudwW YKW80G/TjzHriR6LpzpuiEu3Gx0Dv4LrgAlhEMYkKpjfRJRFSb3VCOiktJzk5uQCGEMW KNnZL5q7AsIBZ6F58XCFQYW62wCcIxaSibcBxI91Gwf7u11KOVntWK3No0G7zxuyxggt Vq4g== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVbQNrXgLsQbBY5siX+8qQH9ehsV1bhOS9qbAQVFaVEjC7rFlwVRKSxnMW+pGXBO1RaU/cu7c6n/7XYpbVcB5dzAO/S4Ztg8vKToXw= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwiKzSqgwmIpCHSCJJ2fwq8H1+YXvAfxVQXM1gC4siegvQ9l7I+ NZ15x2sFkz3MAOIZ5b1Dl/wmjgG3tVTfzlCV8sjxsiC8Wi31gksemWgI6u7OoloGRpZcpreQ+Et KXTKnFtoMG7gHPR2HF2ojnjiLKxnZcDe3p0Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEQ6ruPrrWRRdONQIGnzvlCxzi8qhouJPQ41wsiCy0Tz7iKh2ikOue90z8oTvboFIXVxPw/GZj/EBLAq0A6XEU= X-Received: by 2002:a62:d41a:0:b0:6e3:fa52:2f26 with SMTP id a26-20020a62d41a000000b006e3fa522f26mr4839086pfh.8.1708379133466; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:45:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> In-Reply-To: From: James Johnston Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:45:22 -0800 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000645c300611c30331" Message-ID-Hash: PCC3XUTHCFNTDLKHTNIJCDUY6NDDIBXY X-Message-ID-Hash: PCC3XUTHCFNTDLKHTNIJCDUY6NDDIBXY X-MailFrom: audioskeptic@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Warren Toomey , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000645c300611c30331 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well done. Has the hardware evolved? I presume so, but I do remember one legacy machine from the early 1980's at BTL (icarus, an 11/23), that when it shut down forever in 1996, was a microvax, with its bus connected to a standard PDP11 bus, that connected to a Q-bus, and the original discs were still on line. It's uptime was never more than 350+ days, though, because of once a year UPS testing. In its last incarnation, it did nothing but mail routing, and that barely. I don't think anything changed on it in the last 10 years, not even the system. On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:15=E2=80=AFPM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 4:02=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh wrot= e: > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:58=E2=80=AFPM Rich Salz = wrote: >> >>> I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services >>>> still in existence :-) >>>> >>> >>> Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:) >>> >> >> *We all sail in the Unix ship of Theseus..*. Every system today had code >> from Unix directly, or from another ship that was built of the builts of >> one that was split between a couple of groups. Yes, even Linux: lots of >> networking userland came from BSD, for example, and while lots have been >> rewritten, that's kinda the point of the ship of Theseus... :) >> > +1 > My observation is that Linux is just the current (and most > successful) implementation of ideas that Doug, Ken, Rudd, Dennis, *et al.= * > started and others have contributed to over the years. And like the > thought experiment described, there is no reason why the ship can not be > changed. It still sails the same way to the same places. > > > =E1=90=A7 > --=20 James D. (jj) Johnston Chief Scientist, Immersion Networks --000000000000645c300611c30331 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well done. Has the hardware evolved?=C2=A0 I presume so, but I do remember = one legacy machine from the early 1980's at BTL (icarus, an 11/23), tha= t when it shut down forever in 1996, was a microvax, with its bus connected= to a standard PDP11 bus, that connected to a Q-bus, and the original discs= were still on line.=C2=A0 It's uptime was never more than 350+ days, t= hough, because of once a year UPS testing.=C2=A0 In its last incarnation, i= t did nothing but mail routing, and that barely.=C2=A0 I don't think an= ything changed on it in the last 10 years, not even the system.
On Mon, = Feb 19, 2024 at 1:15=E2=80=AFPM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Mon, Feb= 19, 2024 at 4:02=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

<= /div>
O= n Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:58=E2=80=AFPM Rich Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:
I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web servic= es
still in existence :-)

Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:)

We all sail in the U= nix ship of Theseus... Every system today had code from Unix= directly, or from another ship that was built of the builts of one that wa= s split between a couple of groups. Yes, even Linux: lots of networking use= rland came from BSD, for example, and while lots have been rewritten, that&= #39;s kinda the point of the ship of Theseus... :)
+1
My observation is that Linux is just the current (= and most successful)=C2=A0implementation=C2=A0of ideas that Doug, Ken, Rudd= , Dennis, et al. started and others have contributed to over the yea= rs.=C2=A0 And like the thought experiment described, there is no=C2=A0reaso= n why the ship can not be changed.=C2=A0 It still sails=C2=A0the same way t= o the same places.


3D""<= font color=3D"#ffffff" size=3D"1">=E1=90=A7


--
James D. (jj) Johnston

Chief Scientist, I= mmersion Networks
--000000000000645c300611c30331--