From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DF702380A for ; Sat, 18 May 2024 20:32:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C088435E9; Sun, 19 May 2024 04:32:10 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1716057130; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=sqUqwrk5B8CY+7NRdm7Fr67zGufDMLgcXT4e+4hS/zI=; b=X+RatiGt4qMcD4P1basGkyySw6Xgqx5v1uh5e+5MRNEsPctS6Lyrp/cFHRos4oI67+Wi6F WV73eqsy8Yl3x155lQLvcC3YAvEfzeCWORBCiqsz/ROCAdsF0JuzO2Pmww50YI2txdvzHd 7NNh/uoxc7ja4/viRnUj5/n9/ws8nFk= Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com (mail-wm1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::334]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DB8A435E5 for ; Sun, 19 May 2024 04:32:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-420180b5897so9584065e9.3 for ; Sat, 18 May 2024 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1716057122; x=1716661922; darn=tuhs.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=sqUqwrk5B8CY+7NRdm7Fr67zGufDMLgcXT4e+4hS/zI=; b=bc6o/AJJNrlzBtF1L1Ib9xgO/UVRoaf/IBbT9tewc9eopaub6ZJcIQham68B8ISsad cPWO/BPbnRBVK59WHvRQSvp3nGB9ZD83XmeOhgY0KVKx1DIMyWDwK/PTdrxsz+di7z0H EE7dxO1SqB5S0zHoH+gpvTVHgMrK/2o8jQuGJKiRSBQqoDaOdwZi1ig6AeHqXSmDdAXt sQTxAxkDm3pa+0xKICXdReCReiXcoMg5QN9eoYN+sugzUymOeygnEEjH3a/89fissvhi 8gT2PY501hfYLRBMo7EQo8jkWnABK3HhvUJQGhOWYzqP9boLTZPfnTbtN64bqITbRLui J5GA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1716057122; x=1716661922; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sqUqwrk5B8CY+7NRdm7Fr67zGufDMLgcXT4e+4hS/zI=; b=QKPRCoA1RFsZRMHVvw4z0FH6/PqR8PjxGYgVXDJsNBz9AH4lE+Uv5HyEleBx/4N6K3 wdIxOpCC41B0HvNu9Cdl9pIO4W89zKTwbAXyn3FkEMHnQYwSRLzNfHMItHBfyxZBrMZo XJvxhnnXTZ2DwrxVjulnrnS0AFLJCrnckZ5tt8XVq4gqKqqlSoRvCg4n69iRhQ8NHD85 h/rsG7dcHXaoBrrAlZvVHwDoqafALLoU1b6Xv2S8nojIbly71S+ZCql0OV/BI9Kw53iD nw/FT80MLDGIpCXUZlfOO2JEmyFG/Iox3XCRHKDwonICpsy5IgiCzfclhi8X11MMnBL3 /VTw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyOn3jmTKZ14GAAjT+QmWF6I69Sim0CiOYtK/mnSDqv9rk6W/AB fFEg5Ga4LHBjbPqyJ2QRH9UnM4yqNkfMl4Dof95yypmA/+bDTKtQyFhE0XuEER71nQSsTX2gMH7 +bRcr8NmkeQ8WjMIsgifzzAKNTO9osKuolb9JdTfS/Dxp7YEzaQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEbY4acM+VfM639qzt5brDl5fmOejd6/sKzUb5n2a+4h6YzF+uIf5OoXnM+O9mxXmBuaFgwHFKRI1CCthL1RFo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4f0e:b0:420:151e:b205 with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-420151eb4f3mr135949275e9.39.1716057121445; Sat, 18 May 2024 11:32:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 14:31:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: Douglas McIlroy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: IMOPMEXJAHK5FUL4OU25TDSYSREDCUCH X-Message-ID-Hash: IMOPMEXJAHK5FUL4OU25TDSYSREDCUCH X-MailFrom: pjw@google.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: On Bloat and the Idea of Small Specialized Tools List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: =?utf-8?b?UGV0ZXIgV2VpbmJlcmdlciAo5rip5Y2a5qC8KSB2aWEgVFVIUw==?= Reply-To: =?UTF-8?B?UGV0ZXIgV2VpbmJlcmdlciAo5rip5Y2a5qC8KQ==?= There is a common problem in our field. When something (a command, a language, a library, etc) has a flaw, we say to ourselves, "This is not good. If we remove this flaw things will be better." as if it's an obvious truth. Sometimes it is true, but it's frequently questionable, and all too often it's just wrong. We have no commonly accepted way of balancing complexity and function; usually complexity wins. When AI takes my job it will be because it's better at dealing with the mindless complexity of enormous APIs (and command-line flags). On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 2:08=E2=80=AFPM Douglas McIlroy wrote: > > I just revisited this ironic echo of Mies van der Rohe's aphorism, "Less = is more". > % less --help | wc > 298 > Last time I looked, the line count was about 220. Bloat is self-catalyzin= g. > > What prompted me to look was another disheartening discovery. The "small = special tool" Gnu diff has a 95-page manual! And it doesn't cover the opti= on I was looking up (-h). To be fair, the manual includes related programs = like diff3(1), sdiff(1) and patch(1), but the original manual for each fit = on one page. > > Doug