From: Marc Rochkind <mrochkind@gmail.com>
To: heinz@osta.com
Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Pipes (was Re: After 50 years, what has the Impact of Unix been?)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2024 10:06:47 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAOkr1zV7goW0H3WwtCquuTLCWs4m=aEp8HR0hnKUJMjkMH_Juw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <c9e880b1-e9b6-430d-ba95-8bad10607cbf@osta.com>
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I don't think files as pipes would be "transparent to the user." Reading an
empty pipe causes a wait until the bytes requested are available, unless
the pipe is closed first. Reading to the end of a file results in an
end-of-file error. This problem is avoided if the source process completes
before the target process begins, but then there is a different lack of
transparency, which is that the processes don't run simultaneously. (I
think this is the case with the implementation that Heinz showed.)
Still, the same sort of pseudo-pipes were in MS-DOS, and they were
occasionally useful.
Marc
On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 9:17 AM Heinz Lycklama <heinz@osta.com> wrote:
> John, thanks for the reminder of the implementation
> of pipes on a constrained version of UNIX in the early
> days. The exact implementation is described on page 2095
> of the BSTJ July-Aug 1978 for interested parties.
>
>
>
> Heinz
>
> On 12/5/2024 8:00 AM, John R Levine wrote:
>
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2024, Dan Cross wrote:
>
> Pipes were invented at least three times I'm aware of, but what made them
> work so well in Unix is that they looked to the program the same as a file
> so any program could use them for input or output without special
> arrangements,
> and the shell made it easy to start two programs and pipe them together.
>
>
> Once you have coroutines and queues for passing data between them, a
> lot of things start to look like pipes.
>
>
> They also can look a lot like temporary files. Someone, probably Heinz,
> did a shell for the tiny Unix that ran on floppies so this
>
> foo | bar
>
> actually did this
>
> foo > tmpfile ; bar < tmpfile; rm tmpfile
>
> to avoid having to swap programs in and out on floppies. The main
> disadvantage was that the tmpfile could overflow the tiny disks of the
> time.
>
> They were invented again at IBM in the 1970s and described in this paper.
> I wrote
> them a letter, which they published, saying that Unix pipes did the same
> thing.
>
> https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1147/sj.174.0383
>
>
> Don't forget CMS pipelines, too!
>
> Sadly, the Morrison paper cited above is not easily accessible, though
>
>
> If anyone else needs a copy, just ask.
>
> Regards,
> John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
> Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
>
>
>
--
*My new email address is mrochkind@gmail.com <mrochkind@gmail.com>*
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-12-05 17:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-12-04 3:17 [TUHS] After 50 years, what has the Impact of Unix been? sjenkin
2024-12-04 13:05 ` [TUHS] " Marc Donner
2024-12-04 13:40 ` William Cheswick
2024-12-04 15:02 ` Rich Salz
2024-12-05 3:08 ` John Levine
2024-12-05 15:19 ` [TUHS] Re: Pipes (was Re: After 50 years, what has the Impact of Unix been?) Dan Cross
2024-12-05 16:00 ` John R Levine
2024-12-05 16:17 ` Heinz Lycklama
2024-12-05 17:06 ` Marc Rochkind [this message]
2024-12-05 17:53 ` John Cowan
2024-12-05 18:05 ` John Levine
2024-12-05 17:22 ` Paul Winalski
2024-12-05 18:19 ` Ron Natalie
2024-12-06 2:29 ` Adam Thornton
2024-12-07 20:38 ` Ron Natalie
2024-12-05 16:55 ` Adam Thornton
2024-12-05 17:35 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-12-05 20:55 ` arnold
2024-12-05 21:12 ` Dan Cross
2024-12-05 21:50 ` Marc Rochkind
2024-12-05 22:03 ` Warner Losh
2024-12-05 22:19 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-12-05 23:07 ` Marc Rochkind
2024-12-06 8:16 ` Diomidis Spinellis
2024-12-06 0:46 ` Alexis
2024-12-06 21:46 ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-12-05 23:07 ` arnold
2024-12-06 1:09 ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-12-06 1:31 ` Greg A. Woods
2024-12-06 2:05 ` Steve Nickolas
2024-12-06 16:44 ` arnold
2024-12-05 22:05 ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-12-06 2:02 ` John Levine
2024-12-06 2:21 ` Dan Cross
2024-12-06 16:46 ` arnold
2024-12-06 2:26 Douglas McIlroy
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