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From: Marc Rochkind <mrochkind@gmail.com>
Cc: TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix?
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:29:26 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAOkr1zXSefHKOqTCaGE7Zb_T09HD-s2pM9QfTW8PuMkLGioDGg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZoVq3tsEbh/H9ghC@wontolla.jungle>

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On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 9:27 AM Vincenzo Nicosia <katolaz@freaknet.org>
wrote:

> ...
>
> The programmers considered as "fungible workforce" by mainstream
> software engineering and project management theories are *paid* to to
> their programming job, and they mostly have to carry that job over
> working on prescribed objectives and timelines which have been decided
> by somebody else, managers who know nothing at all about software
> development. Personal interest in the project, passion, motivation,
> curiosity, creative power, sense of beauty, the joy of belonging to a
> community of likeminded people, are never part of the equation, at any
> point.
>
>
What a cynical take on software development! The logical error is to assume
that if something is sometimes true (e.g., " managers who know nothing at
all about software development") then it is always true.

My experience over many decades is quite different. Most often, managers
know software quite well. Where they fail is in their very poor
understanding of how to manage people.

The bias that operates in software development, and perhaps all
organizations, is that when there is a disagreement between management and
non-management (e.g., programmers), the non-managers usually assume that
they are always right and the managers are wrong.

I have never met a programmer or group of programmers who were always
right. Most often, they are ignorant of financing, regulatory constraints,
product schedules, commitments, staffing issues, and everything else that
isn't coding. (There are exceptions, but they are uncommon.) Management, by
definition, is the art and science of using resources to reach an
objective. Programmers generally are concerned only with themselves as a
resource and with their own personal programming objective. It is unusual
to find a programmer who understands management.

Marc

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-07-03 23:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-07-03  4:51 [TUHS] " sjenkin
2024-07-03  5:02 ` [TUHS] " Al Kossow
2024-07-03  6:46   ` arnold
2024-07-03 14:04   ` Clem Cole
2024-07-03 15:22     ` Theodore Ts'o
2024-07-03 15:36       ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-03 14:59   ` Marc Rochkind
2024-07-03 23:35     ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-07-04 13:00       ` Marc Donner
2024-07-03  9:04 ` A. P. Garcia
2024-07-03 15:17 ` Vincenzo Nicosia
2024-07-03 15:35   ` Marc Donner
2024-07-03 17:39     ` Jon Forrest
2024-07-03 17:49       ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-07-03 18:16         ` Erik E. Fair
2024-07-03 19:58         ` Rich Salz
2024-07-03 23:15     ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-03 23:23       ` Marc Donner
2024-07-03 23:26       ` Rik Farrow
2024-07-04 23:26         ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-03 15:37   ` Al Kossow
2024-07-03 16:01     ` Al Kossow
2024-07-03 16:05       ` Warner Losh
2024-07-03 23:29   ` Marc Rochkind [this message]
2024-07-03 23:50     ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-07-04  8:23     ` Vincenzo Nicosia
2024-07-04 20:34       ` Nevin Liber
2024-07-04 20:44         ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-07-04 21:41           ` sjenkin
     [not found]             ` <7AC009E5-C985-44AD-A55E-E0BFC05CDD31@serissa.com>
2024-07-05  9:41               ` Steve Jenkin
2024-07-05  9:47               ` Steve Jenkin
2024-07-05  0:03         ` Stuff Received
2024-07-05  0:12           ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-05  2:24             ` Adam Thornton
2024-07-05  2:42               ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-07-05  7:13                 ` arnold
2024-07-05  7:42                   ` Bakul Shah via TUHS
2024-07-05  8:20                     ` arnold
2024-07-05  8:52                       ` G. Branden Robinson
2024-07-05  7:36               ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-05 10:18                 ` Peter Yardley
2024-07-05 21:38                   ` [TUHS] Re: mental architecture models, " John Levine
2024-07-05 21:49                     ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-05 22:08                       ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-07-05 22:24                         ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-05 23:17                       ` John Levine
2024-07-06 12:52                         ` sjenkin
2024-07-06 14:02                           ` John R Levine
2024-07-06 15:58                           ` Clem Cole
2024-07-06 20:56                             ` John R Levine
2024-07-06 21:32                               ` Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-07-06 23:46                                 ` Peter Yardley
2024-07-07 17:43                                   ` James Frew
2024-07-07  1:39                                 ` John Levine
2024-07-07  3:26                                   ` [TUHS] Re: PL.8 [was " Charles H Sauer (he/him)
2024-07-07  5:33                         ` [TUHS] " arnold
2024-07-05 22:10                     ` Dan Cross
2024-07-07 22:00                   ` [TUHS] " Dave Horsfall
2024-07-07 23:28                     ` Brad Spencer
2024-07-08  6:17                       ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-08  6:27                       ` Lars Brinkhoff
2024-07-08  6:51                         ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-08  9:36                           ` David Arnold
2024-07-08  6:59                       ` arnold
2024-07-08 13:22                         ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-08 15:37                           ` Al Kossow
2024-07-08 17:22                             ` Tom Lyon
2024-07-08 17:04                           ` Clem Cole
2024-07-08 15:28                         ` Brad Spencer
2024-07-08 15:33                           ` Al Kossow
2024-07-08  0:21                     ` John Levine
2024-07-08  0:35                       ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-08 12:29                     ` Peter Yardley
2024-07-05 16:40                 ` Jon Steinhart
2024-07-06 13:20                   ` Dave Horsfall
2024-07-05  0:08       ` Marc Rochkind
2024-07-04  1:53 ` John Levine
2024-07-04  2:59   ` segaloco via TUHS
2024-07-04  6:53     ` Rob Pike
2024-07-04 15:07       ` Larry McVoy
2024-07-03 14:46 [TUHS] " Norman Wilson
2024-07-03 15:45 ` [TUHS] " Clem Cole
2024-07-03 15:52   ` Clem Cole
2024-07-03 16:12   ` Chet Ramey via TUHS
2024-07-05 13:20 Douglas McIlroy

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