From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12809 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2021 19:49:44 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 15 Jul 2021 19:49:44 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 85C569C7FF; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:49:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA7D9C7F7; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:49:21 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="QyV7ahrJ"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B14289C7F7; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:49:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com (mail-pl1-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47D699C7F1 for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 05:49:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id x16so3984086plg.3 for ; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 12:49:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=z2KumuyH98KE8kjULeF/GIlu99O2K0epFQqQbZWLKgo=; b=QyV7ahrJd77PhbQn8zfAnIGI6uz+cOnfYcMYNJHSEy1VKGFZDKnZGxCyv6yiDUHIwh 7vfQoteM+p+0WI/eMYM3rY0VW7VIZ8FZ71q5uiDDfA1ATcJhPE1yYGugiPZzzrA4xo06 DwzT8OsltACc5oBDSqY9VSc4kOzZcywChQyeLULheBkBx91610j4eQREul/tyugTtdkM 3ygTklbJsy5U82abDwZFjnHY7NjdHs2COBlRU9rPgOo4qjNV/UTVtByqflqP0X4wnjor fVM9tcZv5yFDgQ/s7AfbNQmnsHoO7BplTCRrXQm/Ov7RbDHgvfKEeWLpgK3u+ZernOf7 P5ew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=z2KumuyH98KE8kjULeF/GIlu99O2K0epFQqQbZWLKgo=; b=UzXL1eltcoqFGdssd4p6JFquAtFkL8WQsYF70IZelCN4qCsQvPk0Ad1WG5lBikxICg /l1gJ8zyXiSj5K3RHf3H6k3M134fC49hzfTD0oaWlONDkreRSJWyrN/OtPeh79fpHgpV +1ym0XOQ+x0KLW44uq8hdhFYp07wYV4oq7TShLSe5IfxhuugFvZT/5s9WW7RP1qBVd8W Uy0AIm094exmYAfM8TQkaNtTN3AOxSZKgrZGsGS0HUydIR9090UArbDNQfSXv7/5dXx3 d07aSrE6Wq52basiBZvaCpmo667IR2y0GErHe1aCc2wLha7fQmfl5BtCC8sPdvoaSeFB ObmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530tTeLsKD9Er3NBtDv/zWw8QD5E/4RgWfDfcqp793/xAx/fAgMP rkImOMnINXmaE5aYsEoFRgrfqYeRLHgvgYDNa+A= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJ+JfS9w+2G6bKGemCTDniE3iVJfzzsK+jnrSjRYgLguVn4xlrVI+QCqlJL0zvGyIaNtoxu4s5BONxg/zloHU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:db08:b029:129:73d9:b868 with SMTP id m8-20020a170902db08b029012973d9b868mr4640395plx.5.1626378558663; Thu, 15 Jul 2021 12:49:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Thornton Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 12:49:07 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004272bd05c72ec453" Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] 386BSD released X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000004272bd05c72ec453 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The thing which Linux has managed to achieve, however, is the fact > that there is a large and diverse base of corporate contributions. > That to me is what makes the Linux model so interesting, and has been > a reason for its long-term sustainability. > > Although from a somewhat different perspective, it's also why the Linux kernel syscall interface is so unruly, right? You've got your...some number in the small dozens of common syscalls, which are already present for the most part in v6 or v7. These are the ones I, at least, think of when I think of the Unix manual, section 2. And then you've got all the other calls added in by (usually) this database vendor or that storage vendor or the other display adapter vendor to make their stuff work more efficiently. And obviously there's a tradeoff there. Elegance departs, and you've probably introduced some security risk because these syscalls are not nearly as well-exercised as the common ones, but on the other hand you have these large companies paying to work on the kernel, and you have them supporting their product on Linux systems because the system can be bent into accommodating them more easily, and it will run better there than on OSes where they don't get to introduce features that benefit their products, which further drives adoption. --0000000000004272bd05c72ec453 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
The thing which Linux has managed to achieve, however, is the fact
that there is a large and diverse base of corporate contributions.
That to me is what makes the Linux model so interesting, and has been
a reason for its long-term sustainability.


Although from a somewhat different per= spective, it's also why the Linux kernel syscall interface is so unruly= , right?

You've got your...some number in the = small dozens of common syscalls, which are already present for the most par= t in v6 or v7.=C2=A0 These are the ones I, at least, think of when I think = of the Unix manual, section 2.

And then you= 9;ve got all the other calls added in by (usually) this database vendor or = that storage vendor or the other display adapter vendor to make their stuff= work more efficiently.

And obviously there's = a tradeoff there.=C2=A0 Elegance departs, and you've probably introduce= d some security risk because these syscalls are not nearly as well-exercise= d as the common ones, but on the other hand you have these large companies = paying to work on the kernel, and you have them supporting their product on= Linux systems because the system can be bent into accommodating them more = easily, and it will run better there than on OSes where they don't get = to introduce features that benefit their products, which further drives ado= ption.
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