From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12135 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2021 20:58:18 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 17 Mar 2021 20:58:18 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 442479B92A; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 06:58:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EF4F9B68A; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 06:57:48 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="tRWmGajO"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 82AF69B68A; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 06:57:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f180.google.com (mail-pl1-f180.google.com [209.85.214.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB6449B688 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2021 06:57:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f180.google.com with SMTP id t20so177026plr.13 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 13:57:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QKgzw1vdkfHnoVSUpchWV+R9iHum4NQpQ/rRM0y6qxw=; b=tRWmGajO151wzKhgQ+erg5QVIDlqOjd1ObHTWpZVHiRGMCs/JzwYmypfvgxEcXpar7 EtTkB4o1W9Bo7P2bNDqRK7bgHi+HMwRmwbm7zn+Ho6TWejqErAmct8SYayLGuB8LK+nE SX2vaobx7Lib7QYSnxtNRdmaQ6muZsWbX/8QVLJWEvXQ1MUuT85EX9o4xKAlvo406KVl pAtkVH6ijShIBnRvCdE0BrXH8xayyZAmVJYXoxgG1mj1aOrxhiLLh9N3EV4GyU2pHa7f V2RnGYM5GBHq//TDAPTG8dR5uLGzLh6KAviS6bbIgEds2CtOzMHSmJfk/ipN+gxDIOzG EflA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QKgzw1vdkfHnoVSUpchWV+R9iHum4NQpQ/rRM0y6qxw=; b=acwN1WfwwUef+qCjC3DEuuEsq+Zw4bqlLGg/1tHjVFQKdHorBTlGI5qWdT3+srUKa6 jILMbHZFDiSxXCbs5Difm/SKUak5RfDln1PV/cFWxMSUaMPZfzGmylMJALlphroqYMag xoQIdhJvVnGvTtJPIYH6dmJsSZAtzK8M5ydne7PVAOMmcTtCmMT9/9orH+x3FVbRwSFX zw8xU34zcR5o0Fi2TQ5FJZsyHmX5BsTp5TfoQJsp8iJy17H+DF4Sit+z7W33JLsgQl6T mdRVgDCCNumwPBTGLbLnFvxbUvdFlzx+nQxRD0uNO8QYvWDOHte1JFuj/Bhl5rXUBo0y J8kA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532f4xWSvpGVspx1zHN220GtXMZ/scbJMW075m1fbfItVZPZ/soo 7xjJ6eRV70cdvCEqLWI3Y7bViSkQfCF3O3pNuBur1igp5xQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzbp9QPn9cxy7yPuV9GkOnqEsqDV9jhGapfaJyRSHayZU7IDCNhf/Qrzj8pYgDGHYH3spN3tDrXpQ+cOlJVCEE= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e889:b029:e6:4c9:ef02 with SMTP id w9-20020a170902e889b02900e604c9ef02mr6296092plg.1.1616014662187; Wed, 17 Mar 2021 13:57:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210317203335.GA5249@naleco.com> In-Reply-To: <20210317203335.GA5249@naleco.com> From: Adam Thornton Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 13:57:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: Josh Good Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e440ad05bdc1bb0d" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse! X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000e440ad05bdc1bb0d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Just because it didn't have TCP/IP doesn't mean it couldn't send mail to other sites. UUCP was used for batched file transfer over serial lines, such as dialup modems. There was not generally _real-time interactive_ network stuff done with other sites, but there was plenty of store-and-forward goodness. Which is probably what Chapter 5 is about. Adam On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 1:51 PM Josh Good wrote: > Hello UNIX veterans. > > So I stumbled online upon a copy of the book "SCO Xenix System V Operating > System User's Guide", from 1988, advertised as having 395 pages, and the > asked for price was 2.50 EUROs. I bought it, expecting --well, I don't know > exactly what I was expecting, something quaint and interesting, I suppose. > > I've received the book, and it is not a treasure trobe, to say the least. I > am in fact surprised at how sparse was UNIX System V of this age, almost > spartan. > > The chapter titles are: > > 1. Introduction > 2. vi: A Text Editor > 3. ed > 4. mail > 5. Communicating with Other Sites > 6. bc: A Calculator > 7. The Shell > 8. The C-Shell > 9. Using the Visual Shell > > And that's it. The communications part only deals the Micnet (a serial-port > based local networking scheme), and UUCP. No mention at all of the words > "Internet" or "TCP/IP", no even in the Index. > > Granted, this Xenix version is derived from System V Release 2, and I think > it was for the Intel 286 (not yet ported to the i386), but hey it's 1988 > already and the Internet is supposed to be thriving on UNIX in the Pacific > Coast, or so the lore says. I see now that it probably was only in the > Berkely family that the Internet was going on... > > In truth, I fail to see what was the appeal of such a system, for mere > users, when in the same PC you could run rich DOS-based applications like > WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3, Ventura Publisher and all the PC software from > those years. > > I mean, mail without Internet is pretty useless, althouhg I understand it > could be useful for inter-company communications. And yes, it had vi and > the > Bourne Shell. But still, it feels very very limited, this Xenix version, > from a user's point of view. > > I'm probably spoiled from Linux having repositories full of packaged free > software, where the user just has to worry about "which is the best of": > email program, text editor, browser, image manipulation program, video > player, etc. I understand this now pretty well, how spoiled are we these > days. > > -- > Josh Good > > --000000000000e440ad05bdc1bb0d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Just because it didn't have TCP/IP doesn't me= an it couldn't send mail to other sites.=C2=A0 UUCP was used for batche= d file transfer over serial lines, such as dialup modems.=C2=A0 There was n= ot generally _real-time interactive_ network stuff done with other sites, b= ut there was plenty of store-and-forward goodness.=C2=A0 Which is probably = what Chapter 5 is about.

Adam
<= br>
On Wed,= Mar 17, 2021 at 1:51 PM Josh Good <p= epe@naleco.com> wrote:
Hello UNIX veterans.

So I stumbled online upon a copy of the book "SCO Xenix System V Opera= ting
System User's Guide", from 1988, advertised as having 395 pages, a= nd the
asked for price was 2.50 EUROs. I bought it, expecting --well, I don't = know
exactly what I was expecting, something quaint and interesting, I suppose.<= br>
I've received the book, and it is not a treasure trobe, to say the leas= t. I
am in fact surprised at how sparse was UNIX System V of this age, almost spartan.

The chapter titles are:

1. Introduction
2. vi: A Text Editor
3. ed
4. mail
5. Communicating with Other Sites
6. bc: A Calculator
7. The Shell
8. The C-Shell
9. Using the Visual Shell

And that's it. The communications part only deals the Micnet (a serial-= port
based local networking scheme), and UUCP. No mention at all of the words "Internet" or "TCP/IP", no even in the Index.

Granted, this Xenix version is derived from System V Release 2, and I think=
it was for the Intel 286 (not yet ported to the i386), but hey it's 198= 8
already and the Internet is supposed to be thriving on UNIX in the Pacific<= br> Coast, or so the lore says. I see now that it probably was only in the
Berkely family that the Internet was going on...

In truth, I fail to see what was the appeal of such a system, for mere
users, when in the same PC you could run rich DOS-based applications like WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3, Ventura Publisher and all the PC software from those years.

I mean, mail without Internet is pretty useless, althouhg I understand it could be useful for inter-company communications. And yes, it had vi and th= e
Bourne Shell. But still, it feels very very limited, this Xenix version, from a user's point of view.

I'm probably spoiled from Linux having repositories full of packaged fr= ee
software, where the user just has to worry about "which is the best of= ":
email program, text editor, browser, image manipulation program, video
player, etc. I understand this now pretty well, how spoiled are we these days.

--
Josh Good

--000000000000e440ad05bdc1bb0d--