From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17803 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2021 01:52:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Apr 2021 01:52:29 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2DD1F9CA97; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:52:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7E369C723; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:52:16 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="FZa0H1ON"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C4A299C723; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:52:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-f170.google.com (mail-pg1-f170.google.com [209.85.215.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 526BC9C722 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:52:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id k8so11827216pgf.4 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 18:52:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jrF1LNDLw7ya9adYY6B5j9I6kDwe3rU1zzUoFMdxC9o=; b=FZa0H1ONOXHvqLxxZx//cBCcFf2X0eW2bMOmtf6kpOMp7hWGX/sN+zNQ8hMIzd99OH 5TvrM8e1+1C49Bcp0hUaLdbxz9LyqwCC1qjH3SwFAHGOd7ZXOoaDk2/2mLKM240WIsUy /yw/m76EE3cVz7cmegDVAm/GOuXfHpYxC6ArJE4JToqDyZVr193nxlQSBVyuvsgKDuCF oPNwKtrkG5AcAcOXrKQr3ZsfqVrAe6jMSZjp1QAJ/DDFKmwqbLfpk2AE1zRd64TiG7Rj i7+mTjKfk0Di2JN3CCNCjzJhzGtMkUf1QArhSR46AiVYLHztMj0wCgQZBmmhqWlrlCae DC1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=jrF1LNDLw7ya9adYY6B5j9I6kDwe3rU1zzUoFMdxC9o=; b=XwYaS0grofPoDHyvsF6vXQKIdeIEv0rxJqixxSRzemSyuC+zc+w3GF4Oyutk4tW8fo N3KAIEBMgy13sNsMYLbEaRJBAmphWh0QsXOj/2Z2AqBqGvB2gWcoiF+S/2vrLQVdBjOK 1O01OYgmI3ydTbMi/kL8go7mq25+jAEECN1Mi5fc1atMdxpAfEIUFU8vQ41I+tvKB0/L e7buOE3LA4SZpag9sQwJ3GLSwU1w4zYDALhwaLE7GhBWWRYV531rxmmuuBfPn4PVJrSg KpiP8uqFgsxlIc9ozBlXNo408MbKrP5RFBRn/RMO0VNmQ+fCrX4O1bj6RPElYVGvqGJP 08rQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VuQrGk5Yfp5w82e3pV4KmO0D2Th6fQ13vkpjI0hsSlqDZJeTu fyorKWwWkkVQuX72mt0aTAR91HuBJyo17xh1fkc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzVlPJUZckQJQTDkOVCosJ5QcSEHCF68uoCdJepSD4+BS+e4tfgoqDzahb5L2f0eaELGz8F6z+ySzZ0QMxexNg= X-Received: by 2002:a65:47ca:: with SMTP id f10mr1019581pgs.206.1617760333590; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 18:52:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <584DED5A-1226-4AF7-A191-C34CAFA53686@pobox.com> <20210404022356.GR28660@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Adam Thornton Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 18:52:02 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Theodore Ts'o" , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000003f5e805bf582e4a" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Zombified SCO comes back from the dead, brings trial back to life against IBM X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000003f5e805bf582e4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Fortunately, we were once again saved from a monoculture by....mobile phones. Now it has to run on Linux on x86_64 *and* arm64. And because Apple has managed to nail down its brand as The Lifestyle Phone For Rich People, it also has to build in a vaguely-BSD userland for arm (disclaimer: writing this on an M1 Macbook Air, with an iPhone beside me on my desk--but all my real work happens on Linux/x86_64 on Someone Else's Computer, usually Google's but sometimes Amazon's or NCSA's). Adam On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 6:46 AM Theodore Ts'o wrote: > On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 07:23:56PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > I'm the biggest SunOS 4.x fan boy and I agree. It was ~30 years ago. > > Back then, all the open source stuff, or closed source stuff, took a > > ton of work to make it work. It just worked on SunOS. I can't tell > > you how many times I've brought up X10 or X11 on all sorts of systems > > (it was a good learning experience, you learned to figure out that this > > is part of my graphics card, this and that and that and that is not, > > just ifdef that out and keep going). > > To be fair, a lot of that was because there's a lot of crappy > userspace software out there who assumed that all the world's a Sun > (running SunOS). Previously it was Vax running BSD 4.x, and it's been > superceded these days with "all the world's Linux (running on x86_64)". > > I'm a big Linux fan boy, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that > that there's a lot of cr*p that uses slow, maddening autoconf and > automake build systems, yet have so many Linux'isms in it that won't > build anywhere else. > > The fact that a lot of software easily brings up on a particular OS > doesn't mean that it's inherently better; just that it has the > dominant mindshare. > > - Ted > --00000000000003f5e805bf582e4a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fortunately, we were once again saved from a monocult= ure by....mobile phones.

Now it has to run on Linu= x on x86_64 *and* arm64.=C2=A0 And because Apple has managed to nail down i= ts brand as The Lifestyle Phone For Rich People, it also has to build in a = vaguely-BSD userland for arm (disclaimer: writing this on an M1 Macbook Air= , with an iPhone beside me on my desk--but all my real work happens on Linu= x/x86_64 on Someone Else's Computer, usually Google's but sometimes= Amazon's or NCSA's).

Adam
=
On Mon= , Apr 5, 2021 at 6:46 AM Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 07:23:56PM -0700, Larry McVoy wro= te:
>
> I'm the biggest SunOS 4.x fan boy and I agree.=C2=A0 It was ~30 ye= ars ago.
> Back then, all the open source stuff, or closed source stuff, took a > ton of work to make it work.=C2=A0 It just worked on SunOS.=C2=A0 I ca= n't tell
> you how many times I've brought up X10 or X11 on all sorts of syst= ems
> (it was a good learning experience, you learned to figure out that thi= s
> is part of my graphics card, this and that and that and that is not, > just ifdef that out and keep going).

To be fair, a lot of that was because there's a lot of crappy
userspace software out there who assumed that all the world's a Sun
(running SunOS).=C2=A0 Previously it was Vax running BSD 4.x, and it's = been
superceded these days with "all the world's Linux (running on x86_= 64)".

I'm a big Linux fan boy, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that=
that there's a lot of cr*p that uses slow, maddening autoconf and
automake build systems, yet have so many Linux'isms in it that won'= t
build anywhere else.

The fact that a lot of software easily brings up on a particular OS
doesn't mean that it's inherently better; just that it has the
dominant mindshare.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Ted
--00000000000003f5e805bf582e4a--