From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC7320149 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 04:24:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4024A43AFC; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 12:24:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5ED243AFA for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2024 12:24:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-58be2b8b6b2so1461490a12.3 for ; Thu, 04 Jul 2024 19:24:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1720146278; x=1720751078; darn=tuhs.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aBDdEKmDd79fjghzvdLwJrvO3MTm54KHmX4x5qgPsdo=; b=idzRJnA0e5/X1e6yMF1hPL+7Ts9KFXgDJMUkhQDM7Qd6nu6/eDc4qyR/aBvZh4khbu ffSYq+tMOfeOIllYD8A8+jctrrFY91ORtG8yQWS4oNMHqnzOnkO6dSTBJ/PxdV3SudnT 6N8DfdfpfYmkmMgkXZLJGqAZR0o6Lms60wP8TlLDM0BDgAP7Pmsc1VNfQ2Bo5Dl13s1x 9c862mkOqiV2QroRknBF2uakBcPlj9qTN/tkWuoRnqtQP45HA8QHx/HwIh5tvcL5+JFe OZC/GSFNs3qLUX+g30IryFj97q6UttjSuQwrpghqXE9IcoUKV6HEFD9WEoh+vs+nMcgx U7Rg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1720146278; x=1720751078; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aBDdEKmDd79fjghzvdLwJrvO3MTm54KHmX4x5qgPsdo=; b=IKabLieNp9eVtQ1IhbgroBFMxPqqpiAfhxV+XBjOjWhWCxG4u1wxsqbNZ6Eztp5PYH qfQCn80IAaeNF0gGc9jsuCzTnDCtikgF5WLobFjJNR5cKdklDKqAgmvyL29EB4SbXNOq fQgvR/2uI+cLOWST3Q7WSzAMZH7+/kPqWO7125cg3ktI1KnRqGUONm4StnOyfy1uXh+i cv/dakarYxdB5xzhWbe5xIlbtBeYhyjOp6lpFbxnsUdC+1lBy3w62T3AdaxequW+COlt lRcTPAZqlO6SmfxOufiCfHKy+klIs6MBqbbbRzRAUZCtWGFgIvTirUa3SfNK5yN3mfg1 6Kgg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzN7RA4VPwjgWW/PlmYkPx/tB1cpcMahw2a1AT6mILllWgeq8MD lQYswdSFK4qs1UwwFaMb5FOuqYIZ+5zcVFgPjYeWIujFjiY+qDDo3PfHQTTTcgqLSr9+YtGZAzt KwaH9nS6KLiEJMUpWwtuOkETCsvA13w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG+Sj5+cI3tL6jtHfZ2dMSM7RgLYkaW3769bf/L4i1bHm8T0RmWc0vg0GK4OWhJpjIQ4n0YDCCdk3GOILP1IqE= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:c60d:0:b0:58e:2f0a:d5c8 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-58e5b8a1ff5mr1962085a12.38.1720146277464; Thu, 04 Jul 2024 19:24:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> <17b4e96d-724d-0394-7a95-50be7a76f695@riddermarkfarm.ca> <20240705001247.GK26356@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20240705001247.GK26356@mcvoy.com> From: Adam Thornton Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 19:24:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d48248061c76c35b" Message-ID-Hash: NICYAWPAXVBHLURCU7DXGNZBA4ECKRU3 X-Message-ID-Hash: NICYAWPAXVBHLURCU7DXGNZBA4ECKRU3 X-MailFrom: athornton@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000d48248061c76c35b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Two replies to things Larry said: ARM or one of the smaller RISC-V flavor-sets (RISC-V is super-modular) would be a perfectly reasonable architecture to learn these days. After the PDP-11 but before ARM I'd'a suggested 68000. Definitely NOT x86 and its betentacled descendants. Even so, you'd still want to treat it (if you're learning "how do computers work?") as if it were not superscalar, even though it obviously is. Which I guess is pushing me into "please let me just pretend it's a PDP-11 and keep all the scary pipelining and speculative execution and all the things that are hard to reason about below the layer where I need to care" territory. And yeah, if you need me to sweep the floors, I'll sweep the floors, but if I'm needed to sweep the floors often, there's a management problem here, in that you can hire people who are much better at sweeping floors than I am for much less money than you hired me to do software engineering for. Adam --000000000000d48248061c76c35b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Two replies to things Larry said:

ARM or one of the smaller RISC-V flavor-sets (RISC-V is super-modular) = would be a perfectly reasonable architecture to learn these days.=C2=A0 Aft= er the PDP-11 but before ARM I'd'a suggested 68000.=C2=A0 Definitel= y NOT x86 and its betentacled descendants.=C2=A0 Even so, you'd still w= ant to treat it (if you're learning "how do computers work?")= as if it were not superscalar, even though it obviously is.=C2=A0 Which I = guess is pushing me into "please let me just pretend it's a PDP-11= and keep all the scary pipelining and speculative execution and all the th= ings that are hard to reason about below the layer where I need to care&quo= t; territory.

And yeah, if you need me to sweep the floors, I&= #39;ll sweep the floors, but if I'm needed to sweep the floors often, t= here's a management problem here, in that you can hire people who are m= uch better at sweeping floors than I am for much less money than you hired = me to do software engineering for.

Adam
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