From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1882 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2020 19:19:25 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 13 Aug 2020 19:19:25 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DD9B39DF4D; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:19:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910859DF3E; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:18:22 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="HCwCF97V"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E4B5C9DF3E; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:18:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pl1-f194.google.com (mail-pl1-f194.google.com [209.85.214.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6025293D06 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:18:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pl1-f194.google.com with SMTP id z20so3057278plo.6 for ; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:18:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=96wPd8ydMS1GItFlFr50vTRyJu5hvxZk6rH8vLxPA5I=; b=HCwCF97VwJn0amPyBWVb7E9BaPU/U9g/uMaz045LiPM3ujRUBcO/WUYHJRrvi3PS/r ZTLd9+qgNpBnvC7CvziJ0vXFVDP4tOvnhg/0wkZ18H+WXIu/BP4C0B4kw0U2PJDG8G85 mWdah+AvquxZD9gnWqzHOT3ttVJmVS2urS+QddY+Cqfi0IFaiHnGilJYWfGpo2+J8oxs 8FmBNHJethB6Xv+0ReYwZbq5G3wHNcco9QE4XRzAeitI2ZUMvseGbrsxLXRs1cr3iv4A ZfjR3Z8v6n/fch2p6BUd8BcZIKtcZ8iDY0HNcRH52K2wOWrhUR0pmMDxjnxw1MRLhGqF RWqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=96wPd8ydMS1GItFlFr50vTRyJu5hvxZk6rH8vLxPA5I=; b=LTKUCZYfwoHbWiOW87gjbRRv08hZuWOa0DXIRXWbnGHHljsKfFCIBCtbhA8PfVZ1BE gL3fD1L7fP/vupRI0GZseKVQq72gpQlqhdvGycKrKYpRBFacfvjiyjsUun28X2Gkt9hO ACW9uaAp3wx+muab07DQr7nDtRaIUGMpcERh0u+ekZZXjAvLDEr88WeN+dg5hnWWmlGQ JLfGdi1xk6UEqY5uOaixko6e2g7lSPjM/gLyEq71uv4BYufQOXmge0odj7DreWN+Rtmj jO+yVRmlnH0Icp/rx0HMTnSOfjsdb3u8o8yYWh6Yb2JzJ8UN9KnirbZ9OXIVIN10SwZe 9+RQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531PCKKuqo0B2HGKr8R1VoZX70cl6lFp6BebkeZTnbTFZJHrU9Wc ypsKdYP68Lj3Z+TRwgJ1cknxf36nDKwe73vKSPA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxD74SkDyHGU+gi/KnSy03RlKoGJ/7bn1/LpGnskiXN09ma3cuCFoSjT4gUlLegIbAIQ9+D2flfBuosPWD4X1k= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:d78e:: with SMTP id z14mr5895893pju.133.1597346295337; Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:18:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8e7efd45-a84e-cf20-9d30-8222357596a3@tnetconsulting.net> <202007200847.06K8l8DF026646@freefriends.org> <20200720094648.GE15253@ancienthardware.org> <20200801013605.GG10778@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Adam Thornton Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:18:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dan Cross Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000084578505acc72a65" Subject: Re: [TUHS] A/UX [was Linux is on-topic] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000084578505acc72a65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Early AIX is what happens when you give a detailed description of Unix to mainframers who've never seen Unix, and then tell them to implement that system, and then ship it, without at any point letting someone who's used an actual Unix system touch it. Adam On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 10:16 AM Dan Cross wrote: > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:37 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > >> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 07:12:57PM -0400, Richard Salz wrote: >> > > SMIT was quite nice >> > >> > i have never seen those four words together like that before. >> >> Me neither. SMIT was HORRIBLE if you understood the files in /etc and >> knew what to do with them. > > > The sysadmin in the CS department had a USENIX button on his wall: "SMIT > happens." I always found that amusing. > > The Motif-version was especially horrible, and crashed all the time. The > curses-based version was called `smitty`, which I found humorous in a way I > wouldn't have expected coming from "This page intentionally left blank" > IBM. In my mind, the worst part of admining RS/6000 boxes of that era was > the little 3-digit LED code on the front: I guess those machines didn't > assume that they had either a graphical head or a serial port, so this damn > teeny tiny display would cycle through a sequence of codes that told you > what the machine was doing; it came with a book that told you what each > code meant. Something like "387" meant mounting /usr. Ugh; I just found a > page on ibm.com describing these "IPL codes." > > It might be nice if you had no understanding >> of how to admin a Unix system and here is this "nice" curses based way >> to do admin. >> > > The thing was that IBM changed a lot of stuff almost gratuitously. > Specifics I remember were the print daemon (I ported `lpd` from 4.4BSD for > that) and anything related to disks and filesystems. In fairness, they had > logical volumes that could split across disks before most other Unix > systems that I was working on at the time, but the commands were all custom > to AIX and, frankly, weird: I remember that one would "vary on" a logical > volume before one could mount a filesystem from it or something like that. > I was told at the time that the people who'd built that side of things had > come from the mainframe world, where that was the nomenclature. Creating > JFS filesystems required these tools as well; there was new `newfs_jfs` as > I recall. So I ended up using SMIT for basically anything related to > filesystems, but for almost nothing else. > > To anyone remotely competent, and I don't mean edit sendmail.cf, I mean >> you can edit inetd.conf, you can edit a crontab file, etc, SMIT was a >> nightmare that made something that should be vi $FILE, done 20 seconds >> later, a hellish journey through their menus. It was AWFUL. >> > > One of the more gratuitous differences I remember from AIX was that > instead of having e.g. /etc/shadow, they had /etc/password (all spelled > out), which had semi-structured stanzas for each user. That was just weird. > Fortunately, we were using NIS and it was smart enough to ignore that for > NIS users. > > Ask me how I know. >> > > I still have nightmares about AIX. > > - Dan C. > > --00000000000084578505acc72a65 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Early AIX is what happens when you give a detailed de= scription of Unix to mainframers who've never seen Unix, and then tell = them to implement that system, and then ship it, without at any point letti= ng someone who's used an actual Unix system touch it.

Adam

On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 10:16 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:37 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Fri, = Jul 31, 2020 at 07:12:57PM -0400, Richard Salz wrote:
> > SMIT was quite nice
>
> i have never seen those four words together like that before.

Me neither.=C2=A0 SMIT was HORRIBLE if you understood the files in /etc and=
knew what to do with them.

The sysadmin in = the CS department had a USENIX button on his wall: "SMIT happens."= ; I always found that amusing.

The Motif-version w= as especially horrible, and crashed all the time. The curses-based version = was called `smitty`, which I found humorous in a way I wouldn't have ex= pected coming from "This page intentionally left blank" IBM. In m= y mind, the worst part of admining RS/6000 boxes of that era was the little= 3-digit LED code on the front: I guess those machines didn't assume th= at they had either a graphical head or a serial port, so this damn teeny ti= ny display would cycle through a sequence of codes that told you what the m= achine was doing; it came with a book that told you what each code meant. S= omething like "387" meant mounting /usr. Ugh; I just found a page= on ibm.com describing the= se "IPL codes."

It might be nice if you had no understanding
of how to admin a Unix system and here is this "nice" curses base= d way
to do admin.

The thing was that IBM cha= nged a lot of stuff almost gratuitously. Specifics I remember were the prin= t daemon (I ported `lpd` from 4.4BSD for that) and anything related to disk= s and filesystems. In fairness, they had logical volumes that could split a= cross disks before most other Unix systems that I was working on at the tim= e, but the commands were all custom to AIX and, frankly, weird: I remember = that one would "vary on" a logical volume before one could mount = a filesystem from it or something like that. I was told at the time that th= e people who'd built that side of things had come from the mainframe wo= rld,=C2=A0where that was the nomenclature. Creating JFS filesystems require= d these tools as well; there was new `newfs_jfs` as I recall. So I ended up= using SMIT for basically anything related to filesystems, but for almost n= othing else.

To anyone remotely competent, and I don't mean edit sendmail.cf, I mean you can edit inetd.conf, you can edit a crontab file, etc, SMIT was a
nightmare that made something that should be vi $FILE, done 20 seconds
later, a hellish journey through their menus.=C2=A0 It was AWFUL.

One of the more gratuitous differences I remembe= r from AIX was that instead of having e.g. /etc/shadow, they had /etc/passw= ord (all spelled out), which had semi-structured stanzas for each user. Tha= t was just weird. Fortunately, we were using NIS and it was smart enough to= ignore that for NIS users.

Ask me how I know.

I still have nightma= res about AIX.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C= .

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