From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21165 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2022 20:06:09 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Feb 2022 20:06:09 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4D61E9CFBF; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:06:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E5F9CC02; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:04:45 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="M9rsT6mR"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C02349CC02; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:03:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f51.google.com (mail-io1-f51.google.com [209.85.166.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE5009CBCE for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 06:03:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f51.google.com with SMTP id c14so15996874ioa.12 for ; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 12:03:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=bBUXs320J5w8Wk4X8tDB2xOSF/SRd6LhNfoAJc6EqPY=; b=M9rsT6mRk4zvfsKg79EqBBRlQtxv7l+7zJN0O+ZiOk4S+A6PeHqHycMtINn+RhJsrE TIiRivmHM6g0SJZAiFaUzNdEO8hntXRACaovg64Z3KfUuA2r1C9rSrUseKRKS+We+R3Z rlzH39IgdWRvR9M9ph6snEnFOqT28yPFLXXERrzT9pxoX58MM//BoIjOFFEX1F4iTh8d KsC7sD9tfazLyeX92Z+poF9Y6YnNL+CNWWY81Rp45lCFm+1opMqj5JMW36CKL0y/fUrv J5LSXAyuIVeb06vbjJzKh7+4PZrH57JQ3vvxpgQYaRcm3AhwdhUEbyKGfGAfz2aWrTsr WlGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=bBUXs320J5w8Wk4X8tDB2xOSF/SRd6LhNfoAJc6EqPY=; b=IV4DP+u7fyqjv6XAhlpzBeWmrxlW1XMlyKTImOdpctRQQFXvtuhOg7jC5B7q4xx9vt hufDG52PhHQYQk8kqZkcobxJHjVXHJoQ9DKyw8DYC6v6zyvxNJdCCVf+DdJGc7498XT9 uEeCneAQDyHnZZb3VRi8BDCF6QsshSuXBLg8Nx44N2QbtfOeL2ArNeRrOcUJL/Xab3UY 2XQTiFtZZntyuVjDDLQVUcepuXVQJSx09HUWcnlTBaGyA7y2d4mliIAYFwt72Gd0+yOc Jz9SI1IaFwJn+tWWT1+byPHCBsG3HYw+ZUJw0CPCk68MP6GEyposp9xjy0hTpjl+28D2 5rGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533V41yfAod2m/N/bJVFprYfKZnpv3swnPh4+H+/p+Vktioda6vE 4aH76xZBLXxc+TiL5SMd3Xq5ZmtF0IASVOcvwxf3yYOSgoo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwZjB2LjpwvFdzown5r9HOcf1MLXvp+7kd7MtxnjF6J95UGnmY3Hely48+8qVQ+Z90kpwBSiSrgSYp/knTZQFg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:4905:b0:317:1dda:b116 with SMTP id cx5-20020a056638490500b003171ddab116mr10236266jab.188.1646078614011; Mon, 28 Feb 2022 12:03:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220228140715.GQ21168@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Adam Thornton Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2022 13:03:22 -0700 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000f851905d9198bea" Subject: Re: [TUHS] run commands at login in v6 and stty X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000000f851905d9198bea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >From the Spencer paper: "In such cases,it is important to go back and fix the kludges. The time is not wasted; it is an investment in the future" Yeah, well, that's the problem, isn't it? Investment in the future is not incentivized. The manager needs a win *now* so he can collect his bonus and then leave for someplace that will pay him more. Even as a lowly engineer I've never seen a place where it made financial sense to stick around. You'd never get compensation, authority, and responsibility as fast by being internally promoted as by hopping to the competition across town. If the goal were building a sustainable and maintainable ecosystem, then, sure. But it isn't. Good software engineering doesn't pay. Barfing out a checklist of feature bullet points that marketing wants pays. That does suggest that there's some scope for doing this properly in big Open Source projects--except those, in reality, are almost always driven by a very few large funders, who have particular features they want and are willing to pay for. Shipping those features then becomes the priority, not keeping the codebase manageable. I guess it comes down to "hate the game, not the player" on my part and I'm having a grumpy day. Adam --0000000000000f851905d9198bea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From the Spencer paper:

"In such cases,= it is important to go back and fix the kludges. The time is not wasted; it = is an investment in the f= uture"

Yeah, well, that'= ;s the problem, isn't it?=C2=A0 Investment in the future is not incenti= vized.=C2=A0 The manager needs a win *now* so he can collect his bonus and = then leave for someplace that will pay him more.=C2=A0 Even as a lowly engi= neer I've never seen a place where it made financial sense to stick aro= und.=C2=A0 You'd never get compensation, authority, and responsibility = as fast by being internally promoted as by hopping to the competition acros= s town.

If the goal were building a sustainable and maintainable ecosystem, then,= sure.=C2=A0 But it isn't.=C2=A0 Good software engineering doesn't = pay.=C2=A0 Barfing out a checklist of feature bullet points that marketing = wants pays.

That does suggest that there's some scope for doing this properly= in big Open Source projects--except those, in reality, are almost always d= riven by a very few large funders, who have particular features they want a= nd are willing to pay for.=C2=A0 Shipping those features then becomes the p= riority, not keeping the codebase manageable.

I guess it comes down to "hate= the game, not the player" on my part and I'm having a grumpy day.=

A= dam
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