From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 30188 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2022 02:26:51 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Jan 2022 02:26:51 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0FD099D039; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949829CFCA; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:35 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="kOWXngCN"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CE3429CFCA; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-f42.google.com (mail-pj1-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40E2D9C78F for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 12:26:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-f42.google.com with SMTP id 59-20020a17090a09c100b001b34a13745eso8887463pjo.5 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:26:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=R7/ms8c6xFn+C9T6mqovH7lr3fLD/nCCZll/GbLDxRE=; b=kOWXngCN5DpkTwezz7+pCJikEc5meCtSDjDjT8zvaMUT6oPUwWjojZkPlCMjViWHSH uDsCw0dmJCgT0YcZC/J7bvzdShi2gTAZEKhCF9rVx66Wg5BzVdpZidSot/U4Y5U4s8iG Ymbc4nR8fITwJZ27YVYoMYPxGbR4KMYIjC1dCiwH1HC9IYL3qKt13102B5jkjkj5TpCK Fcd/M7jB3AKycL+I5dvRDExUvW/2yUSwU6KNxd34MYlg+ovKkjoblZZJIPbu+EaI1jgz SWjKOH/wmNuG1lG3lqABGCYeNJlhDotrF1RbsluxUzkhdpyyH7ITgnOOOTfIxyFfqmT7 +poQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=R7/ms8c6xFn+C9T6mqovH7lr3fLD/nCCZll/GbLDxRE=; b=yEW0ehPaDtxKn6+K7Yr/u62zztmJENLfa93uBGs4vmZZ9nAFMkzGp8S1HWxxoCgfF2 PQdVUNu7MJgj759yrktSWEHDqPbREgJRL4ZNvuZfLn4uhuQaC6Me/g8jfKzHaV8ltLL7 ZvrDYFpBQCEw1+D57av7GPCXT4F4bEpLbvu5HOTSAIdE5FeWFoNAL9n+zPmyT7z0+Qwm qJ5FZoXrGmc6xdF+9d7PDaI0vHG+H0gYwf1QfW5pBdy98Xzt8xdXVsyUsVqwzqmtx4Dv IlpU7RMPoAa34YC7nVfUx7k57gSFhy9FiyMaL5Sxn5gAst1xbxHiIRgvtfsdLSNi+L28 MCNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533hLEXg9wL5c6DMUcimjJsSiMKj7eAB0Tij4e1TOtLxxgWbQDtu uAOqzHAbiSWJHiT9zqzLOvVOYPrDg3K6A2fXCOkOUIQre7c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdwU6j+N+87TRIrDX8T7Bg9h+hKw1iPuEcFMo9JQ9MFa+h602WS1ssSlPC21ozHEp1XcoilA8DlRqBh2MMrK0= X-Received: by 2002:a63:774a:: with SMTP id s71mr1094541pgc.445.1641954393172; Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:26:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <02982C6D-0DF6-4C45-985F-9B3060DF1125@pobox.com> In-Reply-To: <02982C6D-0DF6-4C45-985F-9B3060DF1125@pobox.com> From: Adam Thornton Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 19:26:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000057ae7205d5594c80" Subject: Re: [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000057ae7205d5594c80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Knuth made an excellent point, maybe in _Coders At Work_ about literate programming and why it didn't catch on: in general, about 1 out of 20 people can be a really good programmer. In general, one of 20 people can be a really good writer. These talents are largely uncorrelated. Sure, being competent at either is a teachable skill. But no one wants to read either a program or a narrative written by someone who's merely OK at it. Adam On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 7:20 PM David Arnold wrote: > <=E2=80=A6> > > > 2. Drop DVI? Are you kidding me? Although PDF may be popular now, >> > that may not be the case 20 years from now. A device-independent >> > format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is. TeX is guaranteed >> > to produce the exact same output 100 years from now. >> >> And .PDF isn't? >> > > No. It isn't. It is an Adobe product. > > > Check out ISO 32000-2:2020. > > I think it=E2=80=99s ok in 2022 to say that PDF has escaped Adobe and is = an open > standard, suitable for long-life documents, etc. > > > > d > --00000000000057ae7205d5594c80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Knuth made an excellent point, maybe in _Coders At Wo= rk_ about literate programming and why it didn't catch on: in general, = about 1 out of 20 people can be a really good programmer.=C2=A0 In general,= one of 20 people can be a really good writer.=C2=A0 These talents are larg= ely uncorrelated.

Sure, being competent at either = is a teachable skill.=C2=A0 But no one wants to read either a program or a = narrative written by someone who's merely OK at it.

Adam

On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 7:20 PM David Arnold <davida@pobox.com> wrote:
<=E2=80=A6>

=C2=A0> 2.=C2=A0 Drop DVI?=C2=A0 Are you kidding me?=C2=A0 Although PDF = may be popular now,
=C2=A0> that may not be the case 20 years from now.=C2=A0 A device-indep= endent
=C2=A0> format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is.=C2=A0 TeX = is guaranteed
=C2=A0> to produce the exact same output 100 years from now.

And .PDF isn't?

No.=C2=A0 It isn= 9;t.=C2=A0 It is an Adobe product.

Check out ISO 32000-2:2020.

I think it=E2=80= =99s ok in 2022 to say that PDF has escaped Adobe and is an open standard, = suitable for long-life documents, etc.=C2=A0


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