From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5135721BE5 for ; Wed, 5 Jun 2024 20:02:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A803443291; Thu, 6 Jun 2024 04:02:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-x136.google.com (mail-lf1-x136.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::136]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FC5443290 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2024 04:02:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-x136.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52b936c958dso179620e87.0 for ; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 11:02:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1717610549; x=1718215349; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DY5RGjB20mudrUjrQfcOVzvtyrh9ykbllLQbZtBZj9o=; b=O5EzocYHg6NXDh7qyhhDEse3fy/eC9FumlWJr7vpI5FDo8YBpF2wk/WXj/z2EqavwR W1UPBgdUDwNh4rQuJkvtZzbvnX3fMxpD/AMy6YpsNwOwfa8VvRpYcbHMANwSYyrDkRKK r5nrzWwkB9IDyhvn7FO0zSMPkPoNcokVyaqzUytMavszVg3jpsUozJb5QUPO6JYhWWzc FJD/TniXor/KcSDFpu2sRAjoUeK6MzrsLAZVZlujSroP3kmCy1jH2hBswPO+DL+bIRc4 pGVtkcHDp4RVQ7FMnwCfQ0UsdmGBGCWvnKnLAKrHQ5UhFNq7aREMYqTKAmE7gxI9afSV M+7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1717610549; x=1718215349; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=DY5RGjB20mudrUjrQfcOVzvtyrh9ykbllLQbZtBZj9o=; b=GQpn5W6aR7hVVjaK4YHaXsFHXQYY5ms7dbqScMrR2m4kATkRjsPLD9uUqjIjqgCp4L bOMitJM9tb7wgvG5Mnt0b2rJy9C6HCTB/JNiAJXuqCniO9lsdUtesA41mnyo3B5B3mSj v9kt2+TpC41Bi26vVriDVckLOYVUkmD8gjDQTxfWrfT8uQNuThAS0URwufdQAe2TfP2U 0nXXF9NmAtSYzhBHbUIJbQQBDins001Htp+QcL5a7d+jx+HbeSjeb5BI78Y0zMaoT5oQ ThxMgOSmYCXQhh5qBpEm/B4IK2ltUTfe5tP/KjsxK7clXjSTXPVBAVQG6jLIdsHS2HBH XI/A== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVthCeSyVPZWzWssXK8/gGeFoSTUTQNfNJLQ8PLS+G7tT/QrPtqCAiBkif2EDVR0VJ2w0QdFBkMjyRyms+K X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzlB+8zxXQyT13vv6B025CepkP3uxuFsoWtqa0Bd3y8nJt6fzOS sXC5iwZJhrngCHkC0KyEk5QuBzjEhYIphtxr9Tzw6xhy5lsT6F8PEHq7igJ5Jf/99ZbzRG8BD+L lYRcINm/pL5rglU2lr2HUDKZSrl25Aw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEufMpC8oiKdQcVfW0EQGe5ETT1h+odgYZwBdNPW9NBEjQ5fqWtyN0UaEZYSaeUacomw3ENPP50Af3QmQHfZ3s= X-Received: by 2002:a19:3848:0:b0:52b:238e:69a7 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52bab4f6f3bmr1761518e87.51.1717610549062; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 11:02:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1324869037.1755756.1717582639424.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1324869037.1755756.1717582639424@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 11:02:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Will Senn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a3b668061a285e3a" Message-ID-Hash: BTWUMVGLZA2M7PNSI6TXPUPDWZSERRS5 X-Message-ID-Hash: BTWUMVGLZA2M7PNSI6TXPUPDWZSERRS5 X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: segaloco , Andrew Lynch , TUHS Main List X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: most direct Unix descendant List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000a3b668061a285e3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You could argue that the most direct descendant is the one in which all resources are presented and accessed via open/read/write/close. If your kernel has separate system calls for reading directories, or setting up network connections, or debugging processes, then you may not be a direct descendant, at least philosophically (and, yes, I know about ptrace ...) But your kernel might be Plan 9, which at least to me, is the direct descendant. :-) On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM Will Senn wro= te: > On 6/5/24 12:34 PM, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > > On Wednesday, June 5th, 2024 at 3:17 AM, Andrew Lynch via TUHS < > tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> Out of curiosity, what would be considered the most direct descendent > of Unix available today? > >> > >> ... > >> > >> Thanks, Andrew Lynch > > snip > > Given this, my humble opinion (which again this sort of thing I believe > is largely a philosophical matter of opinion...) is that the BSD line > captures the spirit of Research UNIX much more than System V does, while > System V retains much more of the source code lineage of what most folks > would consider a "pure" UNIX. Of course all of this too is predicated on > treating V7 (really 32V...) as that central point of divergence. > When I saw this thread appear, I was of two minds about it, but this > lines up with where my thoughts were headed. I've done a lot of delving > into the v6/v7 environments over the last 10 years or so and it feels > much closer in kinship to BSD derivatives than to SysV... source code > lineages aside. Also, I get more mileage out of my BSD books and docs > than those treating SysV. I'd vote for *BSD as sticking closest to the > unix way, if there is still such a thing... I say this as I just typed > 'kldload linux64' into freebsd's terminal so I could run sublime > alongside nvi... sometimes I wish I was a purist, but I'm way too fond > of experimentation :). > > Will > --000000000000a3b668061a285e3a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You could argue that the most direct descendant is the one= in which all resources are presented and accessed via open/read/write/clos= e.=C2=A0

If your kernel has separate system calls for re= ading directories, or setting up network connections, or debugging processe= s, then you may not=C2=A0 be a direct descendant, at least philosophically = (and, yes, I know about ptrace ...)

But your kerne= l might be Plan 9, which at least to me, is the direct descendant. :-)

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/5/24 12:34 PM, segaloco via TUHS= wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 5th, 2024 at 3:17 AM, Andrew Lynch via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote= :
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Out of curiosity, what would be considered the most direct descend= ent of Unix available today?
>>
>> ...
>>
>> Thanks, Andrew Lynch
> snip
> Given this, my humble opinion (which again this sort of thing I believ= e is largely a philosophical matter of opinion...) is that the BSD line cap= tures the spirit of Research UNIX much more than System V does, while Syste= m V retains much more of the source code lineage of what most folks would c= onsider a "pure" UNIX.=C2=A0 Of course all of this too is predica= ted on treating V7 (really 32V...) as that central point of divergence.
When I saw this thread appear, I was of two minds about it, but this
lines up with where my thoughts were headed. I've done a lot of delving=
into the v6/v7 environments over the last 10 years or so and it feels
much closer in kinship to BSD derivatives than to SysV... source code
lineages aside. Also, I get more mileage out of my BSD books and docs
than those treating SysV. I'd vote for *BSD as sticking closest to the =
unix way, if there is still such a thing... I say this as I just typed
'kldload linux64' into freebsd's terminal so I could run sublim= e
alongside nvi... sometimes I wish I was a purist, but I'm way too fond =
of experimentation :).

Will
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