From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0994B2A817 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 02:32:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8545843BA8; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 11:32:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com (mail-lj1-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8934643BA7 for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2024 11:32:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2fc968b3545so47354951fa.2 for ; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 17:32:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730770353; x=1731375153; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1k9ISEGshEHWUcSSXV/Fd6gNPW3YSwpICBRWf27LrgI=; b=SIknsOzqjKeN4tJADa/5NtuN97yZbfQw5LK5bNEShtOI6miROUHy4GEZDoNTTg+dF4 Ts2tyd+3wBFN6aBEdVMsgVuUJg/lRAbX7Z5VNuby0helakRhHk3qURC+xBf13M/0ujR8 G75B1jtIpBwnyObSoBJAWDGuHmr1PPHgED0tyXmxcAILJSDcK206HXXmboty/Jl7Ye6K wErzf8P4DIdPbPbY2Z5Vc/8Y8/XGUi0t4gMC+XTiQTnGSzp65ajmi6HoGeXilFP/dG85 asECBjQ6SC/7mm2ZoMcdi55Hnea4i4eyV9vdEcNgUMC7/arpuK+LB0DUTc4zbwRbuJxG 9ayw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730770353; x=1731375153; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=1k9ISEGshEHWUcSSXV/Fd6gNPW3YSwpICBRWf27LrgI=; b=k+TaSLDIcNjwiJ8XlaKYfWcIzsSx1q4hjsaj/HKgkymIMBTi6uire40d+xIj6s4DPH mCpB+X44gv19mjcCrysHPnO3ASs14g3Jg9H/OBVmNcjsV9FtDueMRhV4hcD3OgZExiQJ oGWxFsveThDNFPIo4IJ5s84XzzRLphfbF3QpN5kUv1Ast4VPqRg+W5+FfV/Aky6nWZVV nWKsbcN/spl7CKH/32GW3aXLUrLz+tCIEj40oGDdLCkHmFuDqCmQXvUk3Ppm07QOshmv Z9ZUBbkkZPLefr5Pq2rCGbAZtXWtHxphlqoYgLLaQQuVhrBqgckz0YXk1JX+e6CZAfCD IcLg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW+1wt6KQOdlTuyldUyWRlfoVCnjoeS/7ahTEhsgFvXAXSXC2+RkJ3BelUUmHhUDUEB9RKu@tuhs.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzUZION/FKJhx5U5w2AohTRVh/cl4POhDsKFEV/TDnc0YgVFJUc kOFf5PLuhKfrCkJj6JcsFbPrWjWnesqm/9wP9NytMVHd2S0bowhQfhEh2b7Dk+bRhZOa2fGgfRg SJZ9Bgkff6XbqW60FCOMXx0kGI5KsRA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH9G1/rJj9JtERrqyYoQBbY/1+Hpa/Y2o7cqc7wP75XDu5PMo1RUgnAGuBlCa4XHA8HQyRzsMeoGIBfWaG/BnM= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5109:0:b0:2f3:f7cf:2f01 with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2fdecc2f050mr51376411fa.41.1730770352240; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 17:32:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52a0ed21-2703-464d-b2e2-72fb44325d47@gmail.com> <20241105010937.GC18296@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20241105010937.GC18296@mcvoy.com> From: ron minnich Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2024 17:32:19 -0800 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000880fc062620603d" Message-ID-Hash: KOIO4DUG7IK4EYVKWE6U2N7TCJUT7LT5 X-Message-ID-Hash: KOIO4DUG7IK4EYVKWE6U2N7TCJUT7LT5 X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Marc Rochkind , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: SCO's "evidence" (was: RIP Darl McBride former CEO of SCO) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000880fc062620603d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had people relate to me, at least once, cases of utterly independent implementations of a function that were byte for byte the same, as found in one court case a friend of mine (now deceased) got pulled into. He had to prove he'd written his code from scratch. But these were pretty simple functions. I don't know if bmap qualifies ... How could this happen? I don't know, but the court case that long predated SCO. The only conclusion I can reach is that when enough techniques, ideas, mailling lists, discussions, and documents become part of a shared culture, the code which people create might be the same. A weird parallel evolution of code. On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 5:09=E2=80=AFPM Larry McVoy wrote: > The thing I never got a reasonable answer to was I found code in BSD that > was identical to code going back to at least V7. Find bmap() in the UFS > code and then find the same in V7. I might be wrong about V7, might be > 32V, might be V6. I don't think it matters, it's the same in all of them= . > > bmap() is the code that maps a logical block to a phsyical block, > I'm quite familiar with it because I rewrote it to bmap_write() and > bmap_read() as part of making UFS do extents: > > http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/SunOS.ufs_clustering.pdf > > When all the lawsuits were going on, since I knew that code really well, > I went off and looked and the BSD code at that time had bit for bit > identical bmap() implementations. > > I never understood why BSD could claim they rewrote everything when they > clearly had not rewritten that. > > I've raised this question before and I just went and looked, bmap() has > changed. I'm pretty sure I have Kirk's BSD source releases, if I do, > I'm 100% sure I can back up what I'm saying. Not sure I care enough to > do so, it's all water under the bridge at this point. > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing > http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat > --0000000000000880fc062620603d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I had people relate to me, at least once, cases of utterly= independent implementations of a function that were byte for byte the same= , as found in one court case a friend of mine (now deceased) got pulled int= o. He had to prove he'd written his code from scratch. But these were p= retty simple functions. I don't know if bmap qualifies ...

How could this happen? I don't know, but the court case that lon= g predated SCO. The only conclusion I can reach
is that when enou= gh techniques, ideas, mailling lists, discussions, and documents become par= t of a shared culture, the code which people=C2=A0create=C2=A0might be the = same. A weird parallel evolution of code.=C2=A0


On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 5:09=E2=80=AFPM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
= The thing I never got a reasonable answer to was I found code in BSD that was identical to code going back to at least V7.=C2=A0 Find bmap() in the U= FS
code and then find the same in V7.=C2=A0 I might be wrong about V7, might b= e
32V, might be V6.=C2=A0 I don't think it matters, it's the same in = all of them.

bmap() is the code that maps a logical block to a phsyical block,
I'm quite familiar with it because I rewrote it to bmap_write() and
bmap_read() as part of making UFS do extents:

http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/SunOS.ufs_clustering.p= df

When all the lawsuits were going on, since I knew that code really well, I went off and looked and the BSD code at that time had bit for bit
identical bmap() implementations.=C2=A0

I never understood why BSD could claim they rewrote everything when they clearly had not rewritten that.

I've raised this question before and I just went and looked, bmap() has=
changed.=C2=A0 I'm pretty sure I have Kirk's BSD source releases, i= f I do,
I'm 100% sure I can back up what I'm saying.=C2=A0 Not sure I care = enough to
do so, it's all water under the bridge at this point.
--
---
Larry McVoy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Retired to fishing=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
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