From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D412A766 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 06:22:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE35E43662; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 14:22:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBFCA43661 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 14:22:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2ebe3bac6c6so19306791fa.1 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 21:22:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718338936; x=1718943736; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=osvPraWAY/WGkzirA0M3oKMT4ceH7O/f/FXHpUgAz3E=; b=lFN85ljN+fmBEAnB48TSFsbejsZg5UM7TTcS/ZMSwtjZqWZlZG2sa8j0QzHI6XBvnw rmXbZ2T9cLCef+zAEH0zrSJijKHH2CcPb39n4nt4AhoVgwkPZPuS/YIbCQJmnxDyhW1u CJ++otxIuEy6RuwlV9K9cbB8/HpelybTd3nFgl7o7+4EPzwRdzJTeqlj2QqQeD9xV4cw 41qBs7dH5p3ybwBeG43hBpJyhCKH9gXaP9yMkTBeRN+7ZWA4RoNtzQW90Pns0BCdhcBb mQl+DcRgCWVLG+JtkMjzRlLi49JYIxMz7mFS1dh+FY++8JZhOk7AOHJS8U/Y2yjc9Ep2 pR7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718338936; x=1718943736; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=osvPraWAY/WGkzirA0M3oKMT4ceH7O/f/FXHpUgAz3E=; b=Hvvv+fK7To7z0SB3KQH7XPv6Iwh8/STDfjnlXRqwKYe2+nkrex5Lcs+cHVHAXn72N1 Rifs9WZY1mfL1wooqBPaPJL12I0OXCKfHjW0ieoeVYuqosSq0yLNV5mV7cf2eGMr2j3s oP6lx0B0e10G/wXDtD1ORLVwEmp8uQX61vdGulszlvsqPlUSXxJWbp0p5YdbfQbXEJql FUzFVQPOqnVV26CtFoveX0EiuMP0WSsYBl1cv48d3e1smLoEs39WBXwXr+WJaFGWew/P wNaIO/YYI4ZVsJV0DfulsULFn2ouXUPfuwbhDq8V6zvVoSVZBWGjLIkaWPry9JsKB4ob bz4Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyIyEeBQHfHe8cuuOSegQcyHJhBXYql3W8WbwoWVD3H50x/2iex UL/j8AegLH5QHeXbZ33jJeDIJEMsEDQVzrDJySHrugUV20TvicHRAvUaMHHY4ad7LnM+9nr/KEj m3KF8ujVz+0M+pEAmTCEOVXNlZLQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGZ0ox90oT9YhYpl7s/2iHdjyMBNK870GGEMBxSGDmScv5Ggfkvrof5XWzIIpcl81mPHlECfDcuA4yPpudamWg= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4da9:0:b0:52c:7f8d:4888 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52ca6e670d8mr1083778e87.24.1718338936010; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 21:22:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <73819d1a-395a-4b74-a20c-0123fbed56bd@technologists.com> <4f7a96cc-2d96-4547-952c-b414a773b62a@app.fastmail.com> <87cyokpdvy.fsf@gmail.com> <20240614005902.GD28495@mcvoy.com> <878qz8paev.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <878qz8paev.fsf@gmail.com> From: ron minnich Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2024 21:22:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alexis Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e2802b061ad1f594" Message-ID-Hash: XPSXF7ZPDTVMJEGO2QROXADQUVZLEDRP X-Message-ID-Hash: XPSXF7ZPDTVMJEGO2QROXADQUVZLEDRP X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Unix Heritage Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000e2802b061ad1f594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable well, it depends on what you want, but tinycorelinux has worked well for me, and it fits in about 24M On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 6:42=E2=80=AFPM Alexis wrote= : > Larry McVoy writes: > > > This is all well and good but what I, and I suspect other > > boomers like me, > > are looking for, is something like Ubuntu without systemd. I'm > > a xubuntu > > guy (Ubuntu with a lighter weight desktop), but whatever. > > Ubuntu is fine, > > everything works there. > > > > So is there an "Everything just works" distro without systemd? > > A guy can > > hope but I suspect not. > > Mm, well, i guess that depends on what one's "everything" is. i > used Ubuntu years ago - having moved from Mandriva - and was > pleased by how everything "just worked". But over time i started > experiencing various issues where things _didn't_ just work (i > can't remember what now; i think printing might have been one > thing), which became increasingly frustrating. So i moved to > Debian, and had a much more "just works" experience. But then > Debian moved to systemd, and i started getting frustrated again in > various ways, and so i moved to Void. > > Void's a binary distro, and i don't recall having any more issues > with it than i ended up having with Ubuntu. And for experienced > *n*x users, the installation process is trivial (even if the > installer is text-based, rather than involving snazzy graphics). > > > I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but I'm 62, I prefer to > > spend my > > effort on fishing on the ocean, I'm not some young guy that > > wants to > > put in a ton of hours on my Linux install > > Fwiw, i'm a 50-year-old woman. :-) My first distro was RedHat 5.2, > around the end of '97. > > To me, this is a "bubbles in wallpaper" thing. i've spent the time > setting up Gentoo because i'm now at the point where i'm clear on > what i do and don't need/want (in general), and i'm trying to > minimise the extent to which i'm beholden to having to deal with > breaking changes to subsystems / libraries / software that i don't > need/want, or with breakages i don't know how to immediately fix > or workaround. Because i have _many_ other life commitments > myself, and i've never distro-hopped just for the fun of it; i've > always been driven to do so, for various reasons. My distro is > merely a means to an end, not the end in itself. > > (i've taken on s6 documentation stuff because although there's no > shortage of people wanting alternatives to systemd, there are far > fewer people volunteering to do even small amounts of the work > necessary for that.) > > > Alexis. > --000000000000e2802b061ad1f594 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
well, it depends on what you want, but tinycorelinux has w= orked well for me, and it fits in about 24M

On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 6:42=E2= =80=AFPM Alexis <flexibeast@gmai= l.com> wrote:
Larry McVoy <lm@m= cvoy.com> writes:

> This is all well and good but what I, and I suspect other
> boomers like me,
> are looking for, is something like Ubuntu without systemd.=C2=A0 I'= ;m
> a xubuntu
> guy (Ubuntu with a lighter weight desktop), but whatever.
> Ubuntu is fine,
> everything works there.
>
> So is there an "Everything just works" distro without system= d?
> A guy can
> hope but I suspect not.

Mm, well, i guess that depends on what one's "everything" is.= i
used Ubuntu years ago - having moved from Mandriva - and was
pleased by how everything "just worked". But over time i started =
experiencing various issues where things _didn't_ just work (i
can't remember what now; i think printing might have been one
thing), which became increasingly frustrating. So i moved to
Debian, and had a much more "just works" experience. But then Debian moved to systemd, and i started getting frustrated again in
various ways, and so i moved to Void.

Void's a binary distro, and i don't recall having any more issues <= br> with it than i ended up having with Ubuntu. And for experienced
*n*x users, the installation process is trivial (even if the
installer is text-based, rather than involving snazzy graphics).

> I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but I'm 62, I prefer to=
> spend my
> effort on fishing on the ocean, I'm not some young guy that
> wants to
> put in a ton of hours on my Linux install

Fwiw, i'm a 50-year-old woman. :-) My first distro was RedHat 5.2,
around the end of '97.

To me, this is a "bubbles in wallpaper" thing. i've spent the= time
setting up Gentoo because i'm now at the point where i'm clear on <= br> what i do and don't need/want (in general), and i'm trying to
minimise the extent to which i'm beholden to having to deal with
breaking changes to subsystems / libraries / software that i don't
need/want, or with breakages i don't know how to immediately fix
or workaround. Because i have _many_ other life commitments
myself, and i've never distro-hopped just for the fun of it; i've <= br> always been driven to do so, for various reasons. My distro is
merely a means to an end, not the end in itself.

(i've taken on s6 documentation stuff because although there's no <= br> shortage of people wanting alternatives to systemd, there are far
fewer people volunteering to do even small amounts of the work
necessary for that.)


Alexis.
--000000000000e2802b061ad1f594--