From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 15986 invoked from network); 9 May 2023 04:54:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 May 2023 04:54:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836B4414AD; Tue, 9 May 2023 14:54:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2e]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B85E0414AA for ; Tue, 9 May 2023 14:53:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-xf2e.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-61b79b97ed8so25635466d6.1 for ; Mon, 08 May 2023 21:53:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1683608038; x=1686200038; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zbFN3BVfVYw/aWcRuV2sMEn60JRxFQdcRcFHNJ86YcE=; b=ORZ/wc0/gkONVF0BkbWVuJ7vX+SewrLNKTQVsBj+dg8l6U+8zVPMFuWY8Li8KHybGr wzDbiekyCczieM45/hCMlrtDdL4oZsUgph3CZF6bst+wpn+9H5KoQ3up1cVxehaysNIM FvsbOWHvi9DYu7OV5mGv00nuEtFQwv5I7sirgckgu7oY6o5qViQKGH3lTImq9dyXgO20 E90l9vYDqi7NL3gljiA6pw5qpwvp2XFyx6ks0F/UfRHZtsDwGBbc2ABY5dH9VJq8qnz4 uA8EksSNtrIzJFIP9gmX6oMhGpT0Oc0jZwGNXs4I+ewev7PIBzy1apk0TVmEWoNPdRp4 QGew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683608038; x=1686200038; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zbFN3BVfVYw/aWcRuV2sMEn60JRxFQdcRcFHNJ86YcE=; b=i9YK8N3LjxID+4U3j7cgmMyb3zK3cwp3MBYeMYChZTl2x2oDbuQgBpDTVX0H/WQ4Ha S6bD9wZQzGBiizIOSrGmbd1+yz03X+u1WJHcWfDehEieiyKpvuF0vnG99QXQ3lx21FHL D2kcjXYx07hML53QPqNB1Mo7NFn0Aue1c3E9ce3YVhqc9ei9/3CkSzNEZnowjWl30paQ oA6rYCGpMFco078M73FTnGdaxIDhkfQZPKXDC/wBAH3CcwDWr/sDZVgZqNXxWvHG2zY4 1YP14yQktUNwYxZI5v1WmxefsE3YY9LfakldWxuqXGF7Hr1Xqf4cpqr9DDYZqvdmER1Q tx2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDx08nEaz+NP4F79/sfCdNbQ+ETkGxLzn5eRZnNdJMSTH9jAnR44 bVPq/7EeSrSqMMtOs6Mqw766M0EZZ4zGNKyLI1E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4P+BP98AdkWP+ZJI+tuRhD+modVHOLr3/9a1UrpYCRaW8SqxGBgc5Z6Lf5a/2WLIR1WSlgu73sZraNr13oCZA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:2301:b0:616:7a62:a7d0 with SMTP id gc1-20020a056214230100b006167a62a7d0mr18847313qvb.16.1683608038288; Mon, 08 May 2023 21:53:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 21:53:47 -0700 Message-ID: To: Rich Salz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000102fde05fb3b8bb7" Message-ID-Hash: WIIFAYELLRXHV4UUCXREGWLICZO5Q72K X-Message-ID-Hash: WIIFAYELLRXHV4UUCXREGWLICZO5Q72K X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Douglas McIlroy , TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Corbato dead List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000102fde05fb3b8bb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oh no, it was literally a typewriter, old school, no selectric ball. https://youtu.be/4HfaveA_NE0?t=3D365 On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 3:06=E2=80=AFPM Rich Salz wrot= e: > It was basically a selectric on top of a box with little hooks. It pulled > each key right? > > On Mon, May 8, 2023, 2:47 PM Clem Cole wrote: > >> Indeed -- and the sounds it made were distinct. Different from ASRxx o= r >> 2741's >> >> For the younger crew, this made the light and >>so much quieter<< TI >> Silent 700 of 10 years later such a marvel: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_700 >> =E1=90=A7 >> >> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 12:12=E2=80=AFPM ron minnich = wrote: >> >>> ah, the flexowriter, for those who never saw it, was literally a >>> typewriter with solenoids at the bottom. I owned one, it was a miracle = to >>> behold. >>> >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friden_Flexowriter#/media/File:Flexowrite= r_2201_Programatic.jpg >>> >>> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 7:19=E2=80=AFAM Douglas McIlroy < >>> douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> Although it dates from four years ago, MIT's obituary for Corbat=C3=B3= was >>>> still interesting to reread. It couldn't bring itself to mention >>>> Unix--only the latecomer Linux. It also peddled some mythology about >>>> Whirlwind from the decade before timesharing. >>>> >>>> "Whirlwind was ... a rather clunky machine. Researchers often had >>>> trouble getting much work done on it, since they had to take turns >>>> using it for half-hour chunks of time. (Corbat=C3=B3 said that it had = a >>>> habit of crashing every 20 minutes or so.)" >>>> >>>> "Clunky" perhaps refers to Whirlwind's physical size. It occupied two >>>> stories of the Barta Building, not counting the rotating AC/DC >>>> motor-generators in the basement. But it was not ponderous; its clean >>>> architecture prefigured "RISC" by two decades. >>>> >>>> Only a few favored people got "chunks" of (night) time on Whirlwind >>>> for interactive use. In normal business hours it was run by dedicated >>>> operators, who fed it user-submitted code on punched paper tape. >>>> Turnaround time was often as short as an hour--including the >>>> development of microfilm, the main output medium. Hardware crashes >>>> were rare--much rarer than experience with vacuum-tube radios would >>>> lead one to expect--thanks to "marginal testing", in which voltages >>>> were ramped up and down once a day to smoke out failing tubes before >>>> they could affect real computing. My recollection is that crashes >>>> happened on a time scale of days, not minutes. >>>> >>>> "Clunky" would better describe the interface of the IBM 704, which >>>> displaced Whirlwind in about 1956. How backward the 60-year-old >>>> uppercase-only Hollerith card technology seemed, after the humane full >>>> Flexowriter font we had enjoyed on Whirlwind. But the 704 had the >>>> enormous advantages of native floating-point (almost all computing was >>>> floating-point in those days) and FORTRAN. (Damn those capital >>>> letters!) >>>> >>>> Doug >>>> >>> --000000000000102fde05fb3b8bb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
oh no, it was literally a typewriter, old school,=C2=A0 no= selectric ball.=C2=A0http= s://youtu.be/4HfaveA_NE0?t=3D365

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 3:06=E2=80=AFPM = Rich Salz <rich.salz@gmail.com> wrote:
It was basically a selectric on top of a box with little hoo= ks. It pulled each key right?
On Mon, May 8, 2023, 2:47 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrot= e:
Indeed -- and the sounds it made were distinct.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Differen= t from=C2=A0ASRxx or 2741's

For the younger crew, = this made the light and >>so much quieter<< TI Silent 700 of 10= years later such a marvel:=C2=A0https://en.wikipedia.org/wi= ki/Silent_700
3D""=E1=90=A7

On Mon, May 8, 2023 = at 12:12=E2=80=AFPM ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
ah, = the flexowriter, for those who never saw it, was literally a typewriter=C2= =A0with solenoids at the bottom. I owned one, it was a miracle to behold.

On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 7:19=E2= =80=AFAM Douglas McIlroy <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu&g= t; wrote:
Althou= gh it dates from four years ago, MIT's obituary for Corbat=C3=B3 was still interesting to reread. It couldn't bring itself to mention
Unix--only the latecomer Linux. It also peddled some mythology about
Whirlwind from the decade before timesharing.

"Whirlwind was ... a rather clunky machine. Researchers often had
trouble getting much work done on it, since they had to take turns
using it for half-hour chunks of time. (Corbat=C3=B3 said that it had a
habit of crashing every 20 minutes or so.)"

"Clunky" perhaps refers to Whirlwind's physical size. It occu= pied two
stories of the Barta Building, not counting the rotating AC/DC
motor-generators in the basement. But it was not ponderous; its clean
architecture prefigured "RISC" by two decades.

Only a few favored people got "chunks" of (night) time on Whirlwi= nd
for interactive use. In normal business hours it was run by dedicated
operators, who fed it user-submitted code on punched paper tape.
Turnaround time was often as short as an hour--including the
development of microfilm, the main output medium. Hardware crashes
were rare--much rarer than experience with vacuum-tube radios would
lead one to expect--thanks to "marginal testing", in which voltag= es
were ramped up and down once a day to smoke out failing tubes before
they could affect real computing. My recollection is that crashes
happened on a time scale of days, not minutes.

"Clunky" would better describe the interface of the IBM 704, whic= h
displaced Whirlwind in about 1956. How backward the 60-year-old
uppercase-only Hollerith card technology seemed, after the humane full
Flexowriter font we had enjoyed on Whirlwind. But the 704 had the
enormous advantages of native floating-point (almost all computing was
floating-point in those days) and FORTRAN. (Damn those capital
letters!)

Doug
--000000000000102fde05fb3b8bb7--