From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12275 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2023 14:01:12 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 23 Jan 2023 14:01:12 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4304D41C78; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 00:00:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f180.google.com (mail-qt1-f180.google.com [209.85.160.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBBDF40131 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 00:00:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f180.google.com with SMTP id s4so9663551qtx.6 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 06:00:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=n328DJhIpMTBx6hNH4336gT4iLu6N4MTfIetM4Bgt8Q=; b=Xfha5NLzYPH9nHl5KrzwFByXKRQDNhAeaBW5ajbijCKk7KwcWOSN1XlHjbfgxd74Bi DWZLJnrvRvaYyIdc9MFTdQQjgMAcKG7vnmHNeMcjw7wzdVK5XIRzWH2slYWBCc7EGdFM raYuvBbDwOqPyd0I/o5gsomJldiqazdMA8jxcVoX6vZft9oiU7jemqi2+xCPy9s6wSu5 +wQuBudwDbZt6vmRePuRdhFxwSUEloDz6zgPb1civzooV2b65WOH5MOpXapobRir4SDV nQW2LBpYF1qHJ+tbAh3dk1vD0MBbLdjfCYEaFVOpEGC060yzLwuVDXERVvod2UAvO7jf 3N4g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=n328DJhIpMTBx6hNH4336gT4iLu6N4MTfIetM4Bgt8Q=; b=mr1FFSP/BIMcC1c/f4vAj0sRSCcWJi+gd10rRCtWKNV089LDj/hp34Al5ZtcoYbZdi Ld1umYa2/91Izl9TOivMYTCjkwknlf2ayKkBUNXm9av5x1+BvKKRePInKgm7WYLzIWcV LXbNMxDQpQ1iqRP3neen1ZzJ8AIzbfZHZVK7GpOtxUjbCk9NNo/WJ0QXPS4p+FTUVn5p HGhnjMGJs7KgcAPmGCHcXc/U5yfUCZbrmpKi6wqru0hIcWAugxXG7xoLSqJzh+WS1RDk mnP80TcUuDjDPwxlpnsB/OWQFqVSaBd9UoysDhluAIc4KIvlE0pk2NEgLQHBQd2U8Uq4 A2Ng== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kqc0rsRzUsoZ14/VNwwzGRfHhahgmECfUfiNfisk4P07iyNaK4I AsZGjOfGl9H88MahdSPv7QJvJ1MiMCd7tpa16d5q3RTTbC3gAg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvIKolSsrD0fTZr4m+gsCmgiwjwuchuKch7ec8jBJmU4Cmj8hK+Zm3/pyDL8TW6jWlocrH+b4fcCmTR+wHVWuE= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7c91:0:b0:3a8:2080:4591 with SMTP id y17-20020ac87c91000000b003a820804591mr934788qtv.204.1674482391838; Mon, 23 Jan 2023 05:59:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230123031111.GX12196@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2023 05:59:40 -0800 Message-ID: To: Dan Cross Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000025f3a405f2eed056" Message-ID-Hash: GOS2ZMFPQFB6CVVFEW22GPO6C2PB3AUN X-Message-ID-Hash: GOS2ZMFPQFB6CVVFEW22GPO6C2PB3AUN X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: interesting case of not getting the point: dc on a mac List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000025f3a405f2eed056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Back in the day (mid 70s), Brian Kernighan and others from MH used to come down to udel and talk about unix. CA 1976, udel was an early licensee, or so we were told. One of the funniest talks Brian gave concerned looking up words in a dictionary, said words being all combinations of words you can spell from looking at a desk calculator upside down. It was a Thing in the 70s, along with disco balls I guess. Anyway, he showed what you got when you started up the hopelessly cumbersome look-up-a-word-at-a-time-in-webster's program that attempted to be interactive. "When you start it, it prints out its name and its version -- like we care -- " -- at the words "like we care", the room just exploded in laughter. That program was the perfect foil. Every time I see this kind of ">>>" output from reimplementations of programs such as dc, my only reaction is "like we care" :-) On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 5:44 AM Dan Cross wrote: > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 10:11 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 02:07:14PM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote: > > > On Sun, 22 Jan 2023, Steve Nickolas wrote: > > > > > > > I think there was one particular dc clone...guy whose name started > with > > > > a G? and his version did that. > > > > > > On my ancient MacBook Pro (13-inch, mid 2010, High Sierra 10.13.6): > > > > > > mackie:~ dave$ dc > > > (^D) > > > mackie:~ dave$ dc -V > > > dc (GNU bc 1.06) 1.3 > > > > > > On my ancient FreeBSD server: > > > > > > aneurin% dc > > > (^D) > > > aneurin% dc -V > > > dc (BSD bc) 1.3-FreeBSD > > > > > > Nil prompt in both cases. > > > > > > > Most Linux versions use GNU's which Does The Right Thing???????. > > > > I know this is about dc (which I think is under bc or is it the other way > > around?) > > The other way around. `bc` is a little interpreter that accepts infix > notation and has a fairly complete language built into it that > generates `dc` and delegates to that to do the actual mathematics. > > > but to pick on GNU: > > > > slovax ~ 'bc' > > bc 1.06.95 > > Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2004, 2006 Free Software > Foundation, Inc. > > This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. > > For details type `warranty'. > > slovax ~ alias bc > > alias bc='bc -ql' > > > > because, well, the same reason I run vi in terse mode. > > Agreed. The copyright banner every time I run `bc` is excruciating. > > The `-l` argument came up not too long ago elsewhere; someone asked > why `bc -l` is not the default. For those that don't know, `bc -l` > loads a library of math functions (sine/cosine, arctan, and a couple > of transcendentals) and sets the scale to 20 decimal points. It's very > useful, but I suspect the reason this wasn't the default is that > loading that library cost RAM and real cycles on a PDP-11 and for most > simple uses that wasn't necessary. > > - Dan C. > --00000000000025f3a405f2eed056 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Back in the day (mid 70s), Brian Kernighan and others from= MH used to come down to udel and talk about unix. CA 1976, udel was an ear= ly licensee, or so we were told.

One of the funniest tal= ks Brian gave concerned looking up words in a dictionary, said words being = all combinations of words you can spell from looking at a desk calculator= =C2=A0upside down. It was a Thing in the 70s, along with disco balls I gues= s.

Anyway, he showed what you got when you started= up the hopelessly cumbersome=C2=A0look-up-a-word-at-a-time-in-webster'= s program that attempted to be interactive.=C2=A0
"When you = start it, it prints out its name and its version -- like we care -- " = -- at the words "like we care", the room just exploded in laughte= r. That program was the perfect foil.

Every time I= see this kind of ">>>" output from reimplementations of= programs such as dc, my only reaction is "like we care" :-)

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 5:44 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 10:11 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:=
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 02:07:14PM +1100, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Jan 2023, Steve Nickolas wrote:
> >
> > > I think there was one particular dc clone...guy whose name s= tarted with
> > > a G? and his version did that.
> >
> > On my ancient MacBook Pro (13-inch, mid 2010, High Sierra 10.13.6= ):
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mackie:~ dave$ dc
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(^D)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mackie:~ dave$ dc -V
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dc (GNU bc 1.06) 1.3
> >
> > On my ancient FreeBSD server:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0aneurin% dc
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(^D)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0aneurin% dc -V
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0dc (BSD bc) 1.3-FreeBSD
> >
> > Nil prompt in both cases.
> >
> > > Most Linux versions use GNU's which Does The Right Thing= ???????.
>
> I know this is about dc (which I think is under bc or is it the other = way
> around?)

The other way around. `bc` is a little interpreter that accepts infix
notation and has a fairly complete language built into it that
generates `dc` and delegates to that to do the actual mathematics.

> but to pick on GNU:
>
> slovax ~ 'bc'
> bc 1.06.95
> Copyright 1991-1994, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2004, 2006 Free Software Founda= tion, Inc.
> This is free software with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.
> For details type `warranty'.
> slovax ~ alias bc
> alias bc=3D'bc -ql'
>
> because, well, the same reason I run vi in terse mode.

Agreed. The copyright banner every time I run `bc` is excruciating.

The `-l` argument came up not too long ago elsewhere; someone asked
why `bc -l` is not the default. For those that don't know, `bc -l`
loads a library of math functions (sine/cosine, arctan, and a couple
of transcendentals) and sets the scale to 20 decimal points. It's very<= br> useful, but I suspect the reason this wasn't the default is that
loading that library cost RAM and real cycles on a PDP-11 and for most
simple uses that wasn't necessary.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.
--00000000000025f3a405f2eed056--