From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8312134B for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 17:16:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4BCB4369C; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 01:16:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 823BB4369B for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 01:16:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52cccd44570so789102e87.2 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:16:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718810194; x=1719414994; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3vqlwn2qjnbqlYA1OwZaDDE0I4iQTVxU6uxg3y98CR0=; b=cZafFMDwgAUxig9h6SkFITOKskMzwLPoPj94AyYbjBZTOcaz5laxBV1DLMO5Ycbq8S asH6zzunuom/7OvEWZkMVtI8W7uwyFwp2xeIf10ZRatwy1oBmift2KkYtsBP7k2NSifp cuYiO2WqFdkI0lJJ/gpOXFTwMLkAdaKXD/G2HuueU7Pm75NgpQD2G+/HE9pDcgxDLH7y 2oe99XEAKekFzBtWsoL+lozJQE88YOOAYrg/tEtJFq1WHw6ftdnG/HAYeBfj7swIk/vG kZ2j9iKRlV5Mf2sIJ6worIHS0jcmIfardyPwuYAel3IaDeDvPhJDfR/WO0PwhBR8zY4P PC0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718810194; x=1719414994; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=3vqlwn2qjnbqlYA1OwZaDDE0I4iQTVxU6uxg3y98CR0=; b=oAPtAAxguZJd3EvKplvny1EkMCGxn6/zS/a73K7263EebHW5L2FzZji5eE/j4CwJdP yMmtzV/ez7urE0cnBGGlaeX1qXVWEjuEkbtYnCwttchQSOd0ueZV4QVRAJXOLHeatbwe jV25lm/BVcKtCqugqUOiqbO2yc9ETUKHmTNxBQ8tLSWtSTq1a4i+mRmkgKVUMt+ehq4H uFG5IDrXdCjor7Ue8RPuH1OdEVy1VAnxJ9ZSChlA0k19mYDVQYsY+Y5AK79ZYmBjgkrS LHyi3QBi4u+zQYatTBwHA9SstPpEE2x+h49VN2EfTxkTJ1skUCz9aGvWxfnsOy4HuOaT YIgA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVct2ME3qCJEZVCg8XU0GqTFGjcsNj6kBd4M/8m/SciWFYAUCyB82UcTnsR9U3OuqA7Evk3q9cBQp0D/w1N X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yww2/8q909cPljUxrR8uz3Hk8ONmaDxE7rj8aw/LmRVA9HcH7zk p6IJz6lQjN16Q1Tdheha7s/JcyMi7NjxtE0S3QXp+/Spsxde7xGwTKBwEkhnJYTqcx0xRU7LXym a5WqPzELGkkO+FXWkO5cdRUdz9YRI+w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IErEQ72lcenTKbupf6gxpEshoc80yRWY1hBs7YAa3f6YmhTCu9RZeSb5cGR1tJzZwGLBtpFmvIxpX3hShuJzIs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:6e:b0:52b:b8c9:9cd7 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52ccaa5b99cmr1693741e87.18.1718810194164; Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:16:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0e6792ed-65b0-e2e1-8159-6426a7f15a8d@riddermarkfarm.ca> <9f9db0d2-8a6a-26cc-a0ba-b6fc5d6474cb@makerlisp.com> <20240619132846.GR32048@mcvoy.com> <20240619145359.GA24884@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20240619145359.GA24884@mcvoy.com> From: ron minnich Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:16:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000f4352061b3faf51" Message-ID-Hash: OAMT35SOLTU6BGKPJQWUTA2N53SHQUY4 X-Message-ID-Hash: OAMT35SOLTU6BGKPJQWUTA2N53SHQUY4 X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000f4352061b3faf51 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable somewhere in this zillion-thread discussion there was a comment about Plan 9 and its multi-headed community. While that comment was probably accurate a few years back, the last two years of Plan 9 workshops saw a lot of us, representing many different Plan 9 code bases, get together and converge on where we want to go. Once you meet someone in person, and go get a cheesesteak together, arguments seem to resolve. I would say, don't take too many impressions from 9fans, a famously argumentative list. The folks who write Plan 9 code are in broad agreement about moving forward and leaving hatchets buried. Progress is never as rapid as we all would like, but I'm optimistic. On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 7:54=E2=80=AFAM Larry McVoy wrote: > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 08:44:14AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 7:28???AM Larry McVoy wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 07:46:15PM -0500, Nevin Liber wrote: > > > > But I'll bite. There was the claim by Larry McVoy that "Writing > > > Makefiles > > > > isn't that hard". > > > > > > > > Please show these beautiful makefiles for a non-toy non-trivial > product > > > > > > Works on *BSD, MacOS, Windows, Linux on a bunch of different > architectures, > > > Solaris, HPUX, AIX, IRIX, Tru64, etc. > > > > > > > The posted Makefile is no a strictly conforming POSIX Makefile, but use= s > > gmake extensions extensively... And eyes of the beholder may vary... > > Yeah, I lost that battle. I prefer, and carry around the sources to, a > make from Unix. It's simple and does what I need. But my guys convinced > me there was enough value in gmake that we used it. I tried to keep > the craziness to a minimum. And I think I succeeded, I can fix bugs in > that Makefile. > --0000000000000f4352061b3faf51 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
somewhere in this zillion-thread discussion there was a co= mment about Plan 9 and its multi-headed community. While that comment was p= robably accurate a few years back, the last two years of Plan 9 workshops s= aw a lot of us, representing many different Plan 9 code bases, get together= and converge on where we want to go. Once you meet someone in person, and = go get a cheesesteak together, arguments=C2=A0seem to resolve.

I would say, don't take too many impressions from 9fans, a famou= sly argumentative=C2=A0list. The folks who write Plan 9 code are in broad a= greement about moving forward and leaving hatchets buried. Progress is neve= r as rapid as we all would like, but I'm optimistic.=C2=A0


On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 7:54=E2=80=AFAM Larry McVoy = <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 08:= 44:14AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 7:28???AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 07:46:15PM -0500, Nevin Liber wrote:
> > > But I'll bite.=C2=A0 There was the claim by Larry McVoy = that "Writing
> > Makefiles
> > > isn't that hard".
> > >
> > > Please show these beautiful makefiles for a non-toy non-triv= ial product
> >
> > Works on *BSD, MacOS, Windows, Linux on a bunch of different arch= itectures,
> > Solaris, HPUX, AIX, IRIX, Tru64, etc.
> >
>
> The posted Makefile is no a strictly conforming POSIX Makefile, but us= es
> gmake extensions extensively... And eyes of the beholder may vary...
Yeah, I lost that battle.=C2=A0 I prefer, and carry around the sources to, = a
make from Unix.=C2=A0 It's simple and does what I need.=C2=A0 But my gu= ys convinced
me there was enough value in gmake that we used it.=C2=A0 I tried to keep the craziness to a minimum.=C2=A0 And I think I succeeded, I can fix bugs i= n
that Makefile.
--0000000000000f4352061b3faf51--