From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9A82210C for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 00:01:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 164B543C5B; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 08:01:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EACFC43C5A for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 08:01:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52cd628f21cso37819e87.3 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:01:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718920866; x=1719525666; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=gf/MtTl/P6IZV8t8yjvoZZ2AEtTwCOoUQ1HIIyW6MCM=; b=JH6zxSPm0ANm8bKDj61YATNZ1J185bQcu+Rcfyo3NANmNzRdPigrXK+VHzsEd3vrEt 0kYbiaHI7Pkfoiun38wL46JzmS6ooRoyFrXX14Szr2IhqI7iXGXhRjZp2rhA4SZHrW2Z KlWfbKt9bYHKoSADWOFGxr1yxs65uacyFz7o8C/T3kROzU5DYW3dmtLfd/rF83PZHffM wJ87UIm17buvl4tAvujC+RbuGv48SEeS1g3gvUMqYgXuCvOJ9sggaXCfOF6R9FnGywKD +OaMWh5N2KZfRhcQYqYU/sMfHI/A8glWxygmt3+KifWsTDOz4P/YOqJcwO6XxdkR2Z2u p+tg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718920866; x=1719525666; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=gf/MtTl/P6IZV8t8yjvoZZ2AEtTwCOoUQ1HIIyW6MCM=; b=Jt3r7iJmdDvT4yQ9brpoatemvRZKHi1svfoQys1npdHN0qh/j2NLBFfH793KS2iBGV 7gwM4uDhoY/TC9M0lZ9iMi2xo+q3OS/3HLapvOCHRa21/jJawMiL0w620HUaM7n0e/Il rtVNpUm/neOKFB4E8/I0pe8Ucg0AhrBmUVLgZ0jdp4k4nQDbSOQOAkDSpPDa/t6MPlJs x4jOehTlYlO4kjAf5Q55yHhmBlBfo3LRFJN12sC6CsAnEbofDSI/frJJnyRYlpxiOVJk V7XfaS/srgGBhG89Y7oZTQdhb7ZjfXUo75+xiVCiR1AcjxEEcHtzYagLwzk+YtxByKQP Mujg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWtAgM8Kp4C0WqR4UJFwlN7mCMdRWeZ5a3p8BNF3g79j67FjKqiaxj0/RGIxbQwNzgWp/VALrZCSXf5UMas X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy/uWsmid5ZiRKWEMmz4Os9UEfQBfi+hAVA2+ypovxIOT7URsgV AQpXo6J//FfU5uENeKdfkVzrrwd757aZ9rypFyYRUa/T/YIZegU1ytPDFhNgrB+5SRa6GdSGYY8 qgsd+GGX/NP4mhrPpDic/spgSEv/dEA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEtN/JeUVCwLqxulGNl96NmvVfFQZESLywG/+br98zbAe+v4nRbw1uwQl7ZoFqWKPVW9eMO+sPfyWvLTu7dhOM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3f03:b0:52c:a88b:9994 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-52ccaa57a6fmr4395491e87.44.1718920866149; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:01:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: ron minnich Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:00:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: David Arnold Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009fbcb4061b59738f" Message-ID-Hash: OGSN6F5BYN757Y247MMBX7GACJOD5WEA X-Message-ID-Hash: OGSN6F5BYN757Y247MMBX7GACJOD5WEA X-MailFrom: rminnich@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Luther Johnson , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000009fbcb4061b59738f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You're right. It's not that autoconf never works, it's that it fails so frequently that I can't trust it to work. Case in point, I just had a bunch of trouble this morning with it, with the most trivial command, and had to reset the repo to ground state to get it to build again. but compared to my experience with Go, autoconf does not compare well. On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 2:53=E2=80=AFPM David Arnold wro= te: > > > On 21 Jun 2024, at 07:00, ron minnich wrote: > > > > here's where I'd have to disagree: "./configure && make is not so bad, > it's not irrational, sometimes it's overkill, but it works" > > > > because it doesn't. Work, that is. At least, for me. > > Never? > > Any tool can be misused (perhaps there=E2=80=99s an issue with slurm=E2= =80=99s > implementation here?) > > I think the quality of autoconf usage (by project authors) has declined, > perhaps as building from source has been overtaken by the use of binary > packages. > > I=E2=80=99d argue that autotools (incl automake and libtool) can be a dec= ent > solution in the hands of devs who care. At one time, I think it was the > best compromise, although I=E2=80=99m open to argument that this time has= passed. > > It was certainly never useful for general portability to Windows, for > instance, and more recent tools manage that better. > > > > > d > --0000000000009fbcb4061b59738f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You're right. It's not that autoconf never works,= =C2=A0it's that it fails so frequently that I can't trust it to wor= k. Case in point, I just had a bunch of trouble this morning with it, with = the most trivial command, and had to reset the repo to ground state to get = it to build again.

but compared to my experience with Go= , autoconf does not compare well.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 2:53=E2=80= =AFPM David Arnold <davida@pobox.com= > wrote:
=
> On 21 Jun 2024, at 07:00, ron minnich <rminnich@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> here's where I'd have to disagree: "./configure &&= ; make is not so bad, it's not irrational, sometimes it's overkill,= but it works"
>
> because it doesn't. Work, that is. At least, for me.

Never?

Any tool can be misused (perhaps there=E2=80=99s an issue with slurm=E2=80= =99s implementation here?)

I think the quality of autoconf usage (by project authors) has declined, pe= rhaps as building from source has been overtaken by the use of binary packa= ges.

I=E2=80=99d argue that autotools (incl automake and libtool) can be a decen= t solution in the hands of devs who care.=C2=A0 At one time, I think it was= the best compromise, although I=E2=80=99m open to argument that this time = has passed.

It was certainly never useful for general portability to Windows, for insta= nce, and more recent tools manage that better.




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